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Author Topic:   Biblical Translation--Eden
autumnman
Member (Idle past 5040 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 1 of 8 (457757)
02-25-2008 10:47 AM


Most of us who give the Bible any thought at all assume that the English translations of the Hebrew Tanakh {Old Testament) have been performed in an accurate manner. My research, however, has found that in a number of cases our assumptions have been wrong.
Case in point is the translation of Gen. 2:16. In the Heb. Tanakh Gen. 2:16 states, “So he lays charge, yhwh >elohiym, upon the human archetype in regard to saying,'From the whole tree of the garden eat you must eat'.”
Gen. 2:16 conveys the beginning of God’s “command.” However, every English translation of this verse employs the English auxiliary verb “may” when rendering the final clause, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden." The auxiliary verb “may” is not only completely incongruent with the Heb. verb tzavah=lay charge/command, but it is also completely incongruent with the repetitive verbal clause at the conclusion of the verse, >akol tho>kel=eat you must eat.
The English auxiliary verb “must” is the only accurate translation; "From the whole tree of the garden you must eat." When translated accurately, however, the Deity’s “command” to the human archetype becomes considerably more complex and more difficult to interpret.
Not many know that there are in fact two very different methods of biblical translation.
The most common method is referred to as “expositor”; where the translator renders the source text already knowing what the text “must” convey. The “expositor” is reader oriented, shuns theological difficulties, glosses over renderings that appear to make no sense, translates large units of the text, and expounds upon the text to make it say what the reader expects it to say.
The rarely used and more precise method of translation is referred to as “interpres”; where the translator renders the source text as it is written. The “interpres” translator passes along any difficulties in the source text, translates small unites of the text (words & bound morphemes), includes the exact representation of grammatical categories, and regularly employs lexical sources.
The common English translation of Gen. 2:16, using the auxiliary verb “may” to denote a “command,” is a clear example of “expositor” translation techniques. This "expositor" translation of Gen. 2:16 completely distorts what the author is conveying as the Deity's command. By rendering Gen. 2:16 as "you may freely eat" the Command being issued appears to only pertain to the prohibition of partaking from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the warning of death described in Gen. 2:17. That is not what the Heb. Text is conveying.
Christian dogma is founded on the idea that the Deity's command was intentionally disobeyed by the human archetypes in the Garden of Eden. St. Paul states in Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned ... 5:14, "Yet death exercixed dominion from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam ...". As I have shown above, however, for literally thousands of years the Deity's "commands" of Gen. 2:16 & 17 have not been translated accurately or fully understood.
The accurate translation of 2:16 & 17 would enable a more accurate interpretation of not only the Deity's commands, but would bring closer scrutiny to other aspects of the Heb. Eden Text associated with the "commands." The veracity of biblical translations and interpretations would also be called into question, and these questions could in fact alter the creation/evolution debate.
I hope I have clearly conveyed the inaccurate translation of Gen. 2:16 so that a discussion and debate on this and related subjects can be started.
Transliteration convention employed above: > denotes the first Heb. letter “aleph.”
Ger
Edited by autumnman, : Was asked to separate paragraphs by an open line.
Edited by autumnman, : Make more clear the purpose and intent of topic.

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 Message 2 by Admin, posted 02-26-2008 9:35 AM autumnman has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13036
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 2 of 8 (457909)
02-26-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by autumnman
02-25-2008 10:47 AM


Please edit your thread proposal into paragraphs separated by blank lines, like this:
When you're done to post a note to this thread and I'll take another look.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by autumnman, posted 02-25-2008 10:47 AM autumnman has replied

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 Message 3 by autumnman, posted 02-26-2008 10:44 AM Admin has replied

autumnman
Member (Idle past 5040 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 3 of 8 (457919)
02-26-2008 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
02-26-2008 9:35 AM


Edited proposed thread topic
Admin Director, Percy:
I have done what you requested. Thanks for giving the topic another look.
Ger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 02-26-2008 9:35 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 02-26-2008 1:03 PM autumnman has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13036
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 4 of 8 (457942)
02-26-2008 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by autumnman
02-26-2008 10:44 AM


Re: Edited proposed thread topic
Thanks for reformatting.
First, most people aren't going to recall how Gen 2:16 concludes, so you need to quote the rest of the passage. Here's what my RSV Bible has:
Gen 2:16 writes:
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden..."
Second, you need to make clear why the fact that "must" has been translated as "may" is a significant issue. Does it bear upon the creation/evolution debate? Upon the veracity of some Biblical interpretations? Upon some specific religious group or theology? It's clear that you're concerned about this, but it isn't clear why.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by autumnman, posted 02-26-2008 10:44 AM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by autumnman, posted 02-26-2008 2:23 PM Admin has replied

autumnman
Member (Idle past 5040 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 5 of 8 (457950)
02-26-2008 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
02-26-2008 1:03 PM


Re: Edited proposed thread topic
If I understand you correctly, you would like me to address your points in an edited version of the Topic. Am I correct?
Your points are well taken, and I would be happy to address them in the Topic if that is what you are asking me to do.
Thanks for your insights.
Ger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 02-26-2008 1:03 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Admin, posted 02-26-2008 2:27 PM autumnman has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13036
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 6 of 8 (457953)
02-26-2008 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by autumnman
02-26-2008 2:23 PM


Re: Edited proposed thread topic
Yes, you have the right idea. Just edit your Message 1, then post a note here when you're done. Thanks!

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by autumnman, posted 02-26-2008 2:23 PM autumnman has replied

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 Message 7 by autumnman, posted 02-26-2008 4:21 PM Admin has not replied

autumnman
Member (Idle past 5040 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 7 of 8 (457975)
02-26-2008 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Admin
02-26-2008 2:27 PM


Re: Edited proposed thread topic
I have edited and added to the original text. With any luck I have made the topic a little clearer.
Thanks for putting up with me. I feel the subject is important, but I may not have the skills to present it properly.
Regards;
Ger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Admin, posted 02-26-2008 2:27 PM Admin has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13036
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 8 of 8 (458099)
02-27-2008 9:44 AM


Thread copied to the Biblical Translation--Eden thread in the Bible Study forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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