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Author Topic:   3 Jeopardy contestants couldn't get the "Anatolia" answer tonight ($2500 big question
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1218
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 1 of 12 (838952)
08-30-2018 11:17 PM


Why is knowing anything about Anatolia such a big deal?

The Greek region of Turkey, which remained part of the Ottoman Empire even after (the more western) "Greece" successfully fought for independence 200 years ago.During the rebellion, the Turks slaughtered the Greeks in many Anatolian cities, simply for being Greek, despite their opposition to the rebellion.

That was the 1820s.

100 years later, The Allies, in the aftermath of World War 1, gave Anatolia to Greece, but the totally defeated Turks, quickly reorganized and took Anatolia right back just as the modern post-Ottoman Empire nation of Turkey was being founded.

Between the events of 1821 and 1924, most of the ethnic-Greek cities were COMPLETELY DEPOPULATED, and relegated to ruins.

Did I mention that this Anatolia is the home to the 7 (Greek) churches of Revelation?

Did I mention that I have NEVER found a single Christian "prophecy" believer (which always will have a disproportionate love of the 100 AD Greek book of Revelation) who has a clue what Anatolia is? I have asked (probably) 400 Christians "What is Anatolia?" when they blather "end times" and "prophecy" to me.

"What is Anatolia?"

"Anatolia?"

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by caffeine, posted 08-31-2018 11:42 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 3 by ringo, posted 08-31-2018 11:54 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-02-2018 11:39 PM LamarkNewAge has responded
 Message 6 by caffeine, posted 09-04-2018 12:38 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1473
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2 of 12 (838968)
08-31-2018 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-30-2018 11:17 PM


Quiz shows are tough. What the hell are potatoes?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-30-2018 11:17 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
ringo
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Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 3 of 12 (838970)
08-31-2018 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-30-2018 11:17 PM


LamerkNewAge writes:

Why is knowing anything about Anatolia such a big deal?


It isn't.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-30-2018 11:17 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
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Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 12 (839077)
09-02-2018 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by ringo
08-31-2018 11:54 AM


ringo writes:

LamerkNewAge writes:

Why is knowing anything about Anatolia such a big deal?


It isn't.

anatolia was home to hittite empire, who spoke the earliest indo-european language that we know about. they're kind of a median point between western semitic mythology like the baal cycle and the bible, and the greek mythology.

troy was in anatolia.

much of early christianity grew up in anatolia.


אָרַח

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Hyroglyphx
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Posts: 5583
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 5 of 12 (839079)
09-02-2018 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-30-2018 11:17 PM


Anatolia isn't "Greek," necessarily. The oldest known human ruins were in that region and has traded hands multiple times. The Hittites, Phrygians, Byzantines, Romans, Ottomans, Greeks, Mycenaeans, and now the all-encompassing "Turks." All called it home at one point. Not to mention the pre-historical people's. It's actually been a pretty contentious piece of real estate. Probably because of its incredible climate and good soil

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-30-2018 11:17 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

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caffeine
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Posts: 1473
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 6 of 12 (839164)
09-04-2018 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-30-2018 11:17 PM


I should just leave this nonsense thread to die as it is doing, but I unfortunately can't resist some nitpicking

100 years later, The Allies, in the aftermath of World War 1, gave Anatolia to Greece, but the totally defeated Turks, quickly reorganized and took Anatolia right back just as the modern post-Ottoman Empire nation of Turkey was being founded.

The allies didn't give Anatolia to Greece. Smyrna; which was already occupied by the Greeks, was declared an autonomous province within the Ottoman Empire; with the Greek occupation force remaining and a referendum on its future status being planned for 5 years later. Now, I wouldn't nitpick about the 'giving to Greece' part, since this Greek majority region occupied by the Greek army almost certainly would have voted for unification with Greece 5 years later had not the Turkish War of Independence put a crimp on that.

However, I have to question the 'Anatolia' part. Here's a map via Wikipedia. The part being effectively granted to Greece in the treaty is shaded in blue. Are you sure you know what Anatolia is?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-30-2018 11:17 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-07-2018 11:45 PM caffeine has responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 7 of 12 (839165)
09-04-2018 12:45 PM


The phrase, "carved up like a turkey," comes to mind.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1218
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 8 of 12 (839418)
09-07-2018 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by caffeine
09-04-2018 12:38 PM


Caffeine in Jeopardy.
I noticed my mistake as I was typing. (I planned to go back but didn't because I started to google other stuff and got busy). I know (and have known) how broad Anatolia is compared to the disputed lands in the modern events I was discussing.

I forgot to change the World War 1 part to specify the western part of Anatolia.

As for the rest of your post, let me ask you about this.

quote:

During the late 19th and early 20th century, the city was an important financial and cultural center of the Greek world.[citation needed] Out of the 391 factories 322 belonged to local Greeks, while 3 out of the 9 banks were backed by Greek capital. Education was also dominated by the local Greek communities with 67 male and 4 female schools in total. The Ottomans continued to control the area, with the exception of the 19191922 period, when the city was assigned to Greece by the Treaty of Svres.

The most important Greek educational institution of the region was the Evangelical School that operated from 1733 to 1922.[18]

Post World War I[edit]

Main articles: Occupation of Smyrna and Great Fire of Smyrna

Greek troops marching on zmir's coastal street, May 1919.
After the end of the First World War Greece occupied Smyrna from 15 May 1919 and put in place a military administration. The Greek premier Venizelos had plans to annex Smyrna and he seemed to be realizing his objective in the Treaty of Svres, signed 10 August 1920.[19] (However, this treaty was not ratified by the parties; the Treaty of Peace of Lausanne replaced it.)

The occupation of Smyrna came to an end when the Turkish army of Kemal Atatrk entered the city on September 9, 1922, at the end of the Greco-Turkish War (19191922). In the immediate aftermath, an intentional fire was set to the Greek and Armenian quarters of the city by Turkish forces on September 13, 1922 known as the Great Fire of Smyrna. The death toll is estimated to range from 10,000[20][21] to 100,000.[22][23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smyrna


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Smyrna

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_landing_at_Smyrna

My question is how you can harmonize your comments with what happened.

(I have a hard time seeing your comments as historical, but am I missing something?)


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 Message 6 by caffeine, posted 09-04-2018 12:38 PM caffeine has responded

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1218
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 9 of 12 (839419)
09-07-2018 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
09-02-2018 11:39 PM


Dont forget the Mongolian massare!
From the Wikipedia page on Smyrna:

quote:

In 1402, Tamerlane stormed the town and massacred almost all the inhabitants. The Mongol conquest was only temporary, but Smyrna was recovered by the Turks under the Aydn dynasty after which it became Ottoman, when the Ottomans took over the lands of Aydn after 1425.[16]


Then see this page that directly covers the massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Smyrna

quote:

Anatolia isn't "Greek," necessarily. The oldest known human ruins were in that region and has traded hands multiple times. The Hittites, Phrygians, Byzantines, Romans, Ottomans, Greeks, Mycenaeans, and now the all-encompassing "Turks." All called it home at one point. Not to mention the pre-historical people's. It's actually been a pretty contentious piece of real estate. Probably because of its incredible climate and good soil

History books now call Mycenaeans , the "Mycenaean Greeks", but did not before the mid 20th century.

The Byzantines are the most relevant.

Byzantine control essentially forced almost everybody to be cut from much the same cloth. Religion that is, but when one looks at ethnicity then it might be fair to say that the people that weren't ethnic Greeks would either leave or become absorbed. Mostly.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1218
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 10 of 12 (839420)
09-08-2018 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
09-02-2018 11:39 PM


Other discussion boards are wondering how Greek Anatolia was
I found a discussion that had people wondering just how Greek Anatolia was just before the Turkish arrival. The central and western regions were overwhelmingly Greek, according to the standard treatments. This has discussion on how Greek it was overall AFTER the Turkish arrival.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ju...

I found it by typing this into google:

how Greek is Anatolia

There is an alternate history discussion site that has a Greeks in Anatolia thread.

It raises interesting questions and possibilities had certain events (like the 1919-1922 war) not taken place.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/...reeks-in-anatolia.113709

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1218
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 11 of 12 (839422)
09-08-2018 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by caffeine
09-04-2018 12:38 PM


The allies were responsible for Smyrna being given to Greece.
I did a quick Bing search on the Paris Peace Conference.

quote:

Paris Peace Conference, 1919

The Paris Peace Conference was the meeting of the Allied victors, following the end of World War I to set the peace terms for the defeated Central Powers following the armistices of 1918. It took place in Paris during 1919 and involved diplomats from more than 32 countries and nationalities.

Paris Peace Conference, 1919 - Wikipedia, the free encycl

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Conference,_1919


Now see this on Wikipedia

quote:

Greece[edit]

See also: Occupation of Smyrna and Greco-Turkish War (19191922)

The western Allies, particularly British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, promised Greece territorial gains at the expense of the Ottoman Empire if Greece entered the war on the Allied side. The promised territories included eastern Thrace, the islands of Imbros (Gkeada) and Tenedos (Bozcaada), and parts of western Anatolia around the city of zmir.

In May 1917, after the exile of Constantine I of Greece, Greek prime minister Eleuthrios Venizlos returned to Athens and allied with the Entente. Greek military forces (though divided between supporters of the monarchy and supporters of Venizlos) began to take part in military operations against the Bulgarian army on the border. That same year, zmir was promised to Italy under the Agreement of Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne between France, Italy and the United Kingdom.

At the 1918 Paris Peace Conference, based on the wartime promises, Venizlos lobbied hard for an expanded Hellas (the Megali Idea) that would include the large Greek communities in Northern Epirus, Thrace (including Constantinople) and Asia Minor. In 1919, despite Italian opposition, he obtained the permission of the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 for Greece to occupy zmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Partition_of_the_Ottoman_Empire


Read the three or 4 links in my first reply.

The 1920 treaty did come after the 1919 occupation, for sure.

But the Allies still gave Smyrna (Izmir) to Greece.


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1473
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 12 of 12 (839465)
09-08-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by LamarkNewAge
09-07-2018 11:45 PM


Re: Caffeine in Jeopardy.
As for the rest of your post, let me ask you about this.

What 'rest of my post'? I only made one point, which you agreed with.

My question is how you can harmonize your comments with what happened.

My question is 'where do they differ'? As usual I have no idea what you think we're arguing about.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-07-2018 11:45 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
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