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Author Topic:   Confusing people
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5610 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 1 of 5 (487269)
10-29-2008 10:50 AM


In the Leopold and Loeb criminal case, two youngsters killed a random person for the thrill of it on account of Nietschean philosophy of the super man. The case was made into a movie by Alfred Hitchcock, in which Hitchcock argues that Nietschean philosophy had nothing to do with it, that it just started with evil of the boys.
So I want to talk about our responsibility not to confuse others, or even ourselves with some kind of philosphy.
Hitchcock says that the evil was in the boys in the first place, but on the other hand the Nietschean philosophy says that Hichcock is wrong about that. If Hichcock wanted to argue that Nietschean philosophy had nothing to do with the murder, he should not have explicitly denied Nietschean philosophy, explicitly stated that the evil is in the boys. The boys did not much have the luxury of any ideas outside of Nietsche, which luxury Hitchcock permits himself. Every idea outside of Nietsche, and the teacher hits the boys with criticism, gives them a failed grade, ridicules them.
What is implicit in Hitchcock's ideas is that there are some things that we all know, regardless of any philosophy. Good and evil, hate and love. Supposedly we all know how to handle these concepts appropiately. So since we all know, there can be no confusion on account of Nietschean philosophy, and no guilt on the part of the teacher of confusing the boys.
But what then is it that we supposedly all know, by which we can say that the evil is in the boys? What we all know is the logic of choosing, since we use this logic all the time in daily life. We know the boys had a choice between killing and not killing, and we know that their spirit decided the matter.
Now the question is can we confuse ourselves or anybody to the point that we don't know this anymore?
I don't think so, because the logic of choosing is so deeply engrained in our understanding of anything, that we can't unknow it. But unlike what Hitchcock says this rather proves the guilt of the teacher. Because if the knowledge is so inherent, then the knowledge is part of themselves, and if it is part of themselves, then attacking the knowledge would cause them pain.
So what happened with the boys and their teacher was that they tried to destroy the logic of choosing which is inherent in them, this caused them pain, the pain enflamed a hatered, and the random choice of victim is them trying to place this knowledge of the logic of choosing outside themselves, and then to destroy it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-30-2008 3:54 AM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 10-30-2008 9:15 AM Syamsu has replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 5 (487343)
10-30-2008 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Syamsu
10-29-2008 10:50 AM


Please edit message 1 to get a better topic title
I'm looking for a topic title that summarizes the core theme of the topic. The current topic title, "Confusing people", is perhaps all too appropriate for the topic - In reading your message, I'm nothing but confused about what the core theme is.
Perhaps another admin would like to also input on this.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Syamsu, posted 10-29-2008 10:50 AM Syamsu has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 3 of 5 (487357)
10-30-2008 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Syamsu
10-29-2008 10:50 AM


You're referring to the 1948 Alfred Hitchcock movie Rope. Does this tie in to the creation/evolution debate? Or are you thinking more of a religious/moral topic?
Probably few have seen this movie, so it is likely a poor choice upon which to base a thread. And you attribute certain arguments to Hitchcock himself, but according to IMDb he only appears briefly and anonymously at the beginning, and I don't recall anywhere in the movie where it is made clear what Hitchcock believes. As far as I can tell from poking about on the web, Hitchcock stayed pretty close to the original play, a 1929 British stage production written by Patrick Hamilton.
I agree with Adminnemooseus that you need a title more descriptive of what you want to discuss.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Syamsu, posted 10-29-2008 10:50 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Syamsu, posted 10-30-2008 11:15 AM Admin has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5610 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 4 of 5 (487363)
10-30-2008 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Admin
10-30-2008 9:15 AM


I was thinking replies would address what our responsibility should be towards inherent knowledge such as the logic of choosing, and whether or not it is inherent at all.
You dont need to know more about the movie, or the criminal case than I already said. You can just opinionate on who'se guilty, especially if the teacher is guilty or not, or Nietsche etc. and change the scenario of what happened to illustrate an argument.
Ofcourse Hitchcock is the author of the movie, I only mean it's Hitchcocks argument in as far as that he directed the movie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 10-30-2008 9:15 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 10-30-2008 5:04 PM Syamsu has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 5 of 5 (487380)
10-30-2008 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Syamsu
10-30-2008 11:15 AM


Hi Syamsu,
Thanks for the submission, but I don't believe this meets our requirements at this time.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Syamsu, posted 10-30-2008 11:15 AM Syamsu has not replied

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