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Author Topic:   Big Bang...How Did it Happen?
Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 414 (92174)
03-13-2004 3:01 AM


All,
I simply want to know everyone's theory on the "Big Bang", how it happened, could it happen, etc. Start it out basicly.
joe

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by berberry, posted 03-13-2004 3:15 AM Navy10E has replied
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 03-13-2004 2:40 PM Navy10E has replied
 Message 57 by 1.61803, posted 03-15-2004 11:23 AM Navy10E has replied
 Message 176 by Primordial Egg, posted 04-29-2004 4:33 PM Navy10E has not replied
 Message 190 by suaverider, posted 08-26-2004 8:21 PM Navy10E has not replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 414 (92176)
03-13-2004 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Navy10E
03-13-2004 3:01 AM


Why don't you pick up a copy of Isaac Asimov's Guide to Earth and Space? The paperback version is available for about eight bucks, and the chapters which explain the basic concept of the big bang can be read and fully grasped in a very short time, certainly no more than an hour. Asimov has a wonderful gift for making complex scientific principles easily understandable. His non-fiction books are among the best available for any layman studying any of the subjects he covered, such as the bible, Shakespeare, science and world history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:01 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:18 AM berberry has not replied
 Message 7 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-13-2004 3:32 AM berberry has replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 414 (92177)
03-13-2004 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by berberry
03-13-2004 3:15 AM


Because I wanted your opinions. What you believed, not for information. If you were particularly astute, you may have noticed I asked for everyone's theory.
[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-13-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by berberry, posted 03-13-2004 3:15 AM berberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Darwin Storm, posted 03-13-2004 3:22 AM Navy10E has replied
 Message 5 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:27 AM Navy10E has not replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 414 (92178)
03-13-2004 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Navy10E
03-13-2004 3:18 AM


Correction, what you asked for is everyone's opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:18 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:30 AM Darwin Storm has not replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 414 (92179)
03-13-2004 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Navy10E
03-13-2004 3:18 AM


Attention all:
I have noticed while looking over this forum, that when a person requests addition information regarding a belief, idea or theory, the first person responds by saying something to the effect of "look it up yourself, you idiot." Last I checked, this was a debate forum. We are here to argue and nitpick with each other. It might be neccisary over the course of a debate (or even to start a debate) to get the "other sides" view of what happened. I thought this was a common occurence when debating. Except for here, it seems. Ok, enough of that stupidity, and say what you think, what you believe, and lets all argue like cats and dogs in peace. Thank you, I'm done venting.
Joe
[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-13-2004]
[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-13-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:18 AM Navy10E has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by berberry, posted 03-13-2004 3:34 AM Navy10E has replied
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 03-13-2004 3:52 AM Navy10E has replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 414 (92180)
03-13-2004 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Darwin Storm
03-13-2004 3:22 AM


And your point is what? I need to read a book to understand your opinions? As far as I'm concerned, there would only be two reasons for that. One, I'm too stupid to "get" what you think. The other: you arn't really sure what you think, so you get a book to think for you.
But yes, I did ask for everyone's opinion. My point still stands.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Darwin Storm, posted 03-13-2004 3:22 AM Darwin Storm has not replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 7 of 414 (92181)
03-13-2004 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by berberry
03-13-2004 3:15 AM


Flashback to high school
This topics first message has just reminded me of a history class I had about 28 years ago.
The teacher would usually have an extra credit question at the end of the exams. One time it was along the lines of:
quote:
Present a concise but sufficiently detailed summary of the origin and development of the universe. Then construct an experiment to test your hypothesis.
Now back to the regular topic, already in progress.
Moose
{Bad Moose - What do you think you are doing? Why I outa, why I outa, why I outa - Adminnemooseus}
[Pre-edited to save AM from having to edit in a message to reprimand M about disrupting topic continuity]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by berberry, posted 03-13-2004 3:15 AM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:45 AM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 11 by berberry, posted 03-13-2004 3:49 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 414 (92182)
03-13-2004 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Navy10E
03-13-2004 3:27 AM


But you're asking for a debate and not posing one. Simply bringing up the subject of the big bang is not enough. You must be more specific and you must pose an argument of some sort. Otherwise you're just mentioning a subject and asking other people to debate it. You opened the thread, you start the debate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:27 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:42 AM berberry has not replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 414 (92183)
03-13-2004 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by berberry
03-13-2004 3:34 AM


I was just trying to get a ball rolling about the Big Bang. Nothing specific. I was even going to allow you all the chances of setting up and defining the argument, which I thought was an advantage to y'all. But since you asked, and I'm such a nice (not to mention good looking) guy, I'll comply. Here's the questions.
How do you get, an entire universe out of nothing/a single atom/matter the size of a period on a page/matter the size of a basketball (depending on how old the books u read are)? Where did that original matter come from?
Not really well organized, but set up in 4 minutes. If you don't like it, you can set up your own thread. I just wanna talk about crap.
[This message has been edited by Navy10E, 03-13-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by berberry, posted 03-13-2004 3:34 AM berberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 03-13-2004 3:56 AM Navy10E has replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 414 (92184)
03-13-2004 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Minnemooseus
03-13-2004 3:32 AM


Re: Flashback to high school
Moose,
Point taken.
Joe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-13-2004 3:32 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 414 (92185)
03-13-2004 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Minnemooseus
03-13-2004 3:32 AM


Re: Flashback to high school
from minnemooseus:
quote:
Present a concise but sufficiently detailed summary of the origin and development of the universe. Then construct an experiment to test your hypothesis.
What I'd love to see is how a Bob Jones University grad would answer that, particularly the part about the experiment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-13-2004 3:32 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 4:30 AM berberry has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 414 (92186)
03-13-2004 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Navy10E
03-13-2004 3:27 AM


I have noticed while looking over this forum, that when a person requests addition information regarding a belief, idea or theory, the first person responds by saying something to the effect of "look it up yourself, you idiot."
That's because what most people ask about are things that, to get the whole picture, take a book's worth of words. None of us here are qualified to give you the Cliff's Notes on General Relativity if you don't already know something about it. Try as we might we're just going to wind up leaving out something important.
It's like asking you "in ten words or less, describe the impact of the tactics of Nelson on the history of naval engagements. And don't leave anything out." A ten-world precis of the history of sea battles isn't going to be a good foundation for debate.
Last I checked, this was a debate forum. We are here to argue and nitpick with each other.
Arguing in fun. Nitpicking is bullshit.
The reason you're getting the answers you are is because you're asking us the wrong questions. We're here to pit scientific theory against religious dogma.
What we're not here to do is argue about our own individual misunderstandings of scientific theory. It's fine for you to ask something like "what evidence is there for evolution?" But asking "what is evolution?" is going to get you pointed to a website or a book because relatively few of us are qualified to explain it to you. We leave that to the folks with biology degrees, because it's their theory.
If you want a discussion of Big Bang cosmology, that's fine. Lay out your position and we'll discuss it. But we can't have the discussion until we're all on the same page about what Big Bang cosmology says, and you won't be on that page until you've done some reading on the subject from folks like Asimov or Hawking, who have some qualification in the subject.
And if you already know what Big Bang cosmology says, then why the fuck are you asking us?
What we think and believe about the Big Bang theory is not relevant. What is relevant is the evidence that supports the theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:27 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 4:11 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 414 (92187)
03-13-2004 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Navy10E
03-13-2004 3:42 AM


Much better questions. Sorry about my counter-rant.
How do you get, an entire universe out of nothing/a single atom/matter the size of a period on a page/matter the size of a basketball (depending on how old the books u read are)?
Firstly, remember that the universe is expanding from a point of zero size to the size it is now. That means that the universe hits each of those sizes on the way up. So it's not about how old your book is. It's about how old the universe is when you're looking at it.
Where did that original matter come from?
You may not be aware that, at an imperceptible quantum level, matter appears and disappears from otherwise empty space constantly. This causes an observable effect called the "Casimir Effect."
Essentially, if the amount of anti-matter in the universe is the same as the amount of matter, then the total energy level of the universe is zero. A universe of zero net energy/matter could easily spontaneously form.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 3:42 AM Navy10E has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Navy10E, posted 03-13-2004 4:18 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 141 by Lizard Breath, posted 03-23-2004 1:49 PM crashfrog has not replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 414 (92189)
03-13-2004 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
03-13-2004 3:52 AM


Raging Toad/Crashing Frog/Whatever,
"'Last I checked, this was a debate forum. We are here to argue and nitpick with each other.'
"Arguing in fun. Nitpicking is bullshit."
You nitpick over what I say, by saying that to nitpick is bull? Wow, that is profound.
"relatively few of us are qualified to explain it (evolution) to you"
Now, why would that be? Say maybe, it takes a Docterate to understand your own beliefs?
Wait a minute, you arn't qualified to explain it to me? If you can't even explain it, it would seem to me you are using faith. You believe something you don't understand. Wow...we both use faith. Funny how litte difference there is between us after all. I have Pastors and Theologans explain the Bible to me, you have Scientists and experts explain what you believe to you.
I understand that you might not be able to explain all of Enstein's theorys to me, but that wasn't what I was asking for, was it? If I recall correctly, I do believe I said "keep it simple" in my first post for that very reason.
"[I]f you already know what Big Bang cosmology says, then why the f*** are you asking us?"
Like I said before, I want to debate it with you. Gosh this is getting redundant. If I wanted to learn, I can take night classes at a local college and the Navy pays for it. I'm all good there. I want to debate though.
Look, I will readily admit that I didn't set up a arguement, go hunt you down and tell you to poke holes in it. I wanted to take it one peice at a time. Slowly, not drown in information spit out to quickly to confirm or absorb. If you don't like it, don't worry about talking to me. I'm far outnumbered on this site (just a noting of facts, not really worried about it) and there are plenty more of you fun people to debate.
Have fun,
Joe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 03-13-2004 3:52 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 03-13-2004 5:51 AM Navy10E has replied

Navy10E
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 414 (92190)
03-13-2004 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
03-13-2004 3:56 AM


Ahh! ok!! Here we go! We are friends agian. I know this will sound stupid, but: Have you ever seen anti-matter? If not, where is it all, and what seperated it from matter?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 03-13-2004 3:56 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 03-13-2004 5:40 AM Navy10E has replied

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