The rise of faith schools

The rise of state funded faith schools in Britain is a topical issue as their numbers are set to increase in the near future. This may well lead to a more heated EvC debate in Britain to mirror that in the US (if slightly less sensational).The crux of my gripe is that the fundamental premise of faith schools, to me and many others, is wrong. The education of children on the basis of their parents’ religious persuasions seems to me to be divisive as is serves to teach children how they are different from other children.
The notion is absurd would you approve of the creation of politically aligned schools where the children of Labour/Tory (or Republican/Democrat) supporters were segregated and taught different political ideologies?NB - I know this is a predominantly American forum but there are a few British members around so I would like your comments and insights. And of course comments from anyone else, who has an opinion of the rightness or wrongness of fundamentals of this issue, whether you are in favour or against faith schools, are also welcome.I don’t know if there are America equivalents to state funded faith schools so would be nice if someone could fill me in.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

In essense, state funded 'faith schools' are against the constitution.When it comes to 'faith' schools in the united states, there are a number of private schools that are run by various religions. There are some very good schools that are run by the Roman Catholic church. I don't beleive all 'faith'schools are equal, or even all the schools run by the RCC for that matter.There is an ongoing debate about the use of 'school vouchers' and letting people use that for sending kids to 'faith based' schools.

Let me start by answering your final question and then working back towards the earlier part. Under our Constitution over on this side of the pond, it is illegal for the State to support Faith Based schools. Currently there is a push to get around the Constitutional issues using "Vouchers" as the method. A Voucher would be a subsidy given directly to a family that they could use to send their child to whatever school they choose. The Great Fiction is that since the State does not transfer the money directly to the Faith Based schools, the State is not in conflict with our Constitution. Of course, that will come down to the actual content of the curriculum.Personally, I believe that Sacred Studies should be part of EVERY school curriculum, but that it should be taught broadly and honestly. We had a thread on that Message 1.On the otherhand, when the intent of the curriculum is to promote ignorance, to hide and shield the student from the evidence available, the result is that the child is raised in ignorance.To quote from the Clergy Project, an indepentant group of Christian Clergy that are opposed to teaching the perverted version of science and religion known as ID or Biblical Creationism:

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

My personal opinion is that democracy does not mean the tyrrany of the majority, and that the right of any minority, or even of any individual, to dissent from the opinions and policies of the majority should be protected, even to the point of allowing the minority or individual to "opt out".

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Personally, I'm pretty much a church/state separation absolutist. The state ought not be in the business of supporting or teaching religion.Quite often, this position is supported by the argument that religion running the government has a potential for all sorts of mischief. And I agree with that. But, often overlooked is the argument that this separation is just as much to protect religion from the government. If religion begins to rely on government for support, it won't be long before government is able to call the shots, and tell religion what it may or may not teach. Surely that result is as much to be avoided as religion running the government.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Hi im working on a school debate topic and i could use some help from some one of your profesions. I am debating on weather creationism is should be taught in public schools or if evolution should or if none of them should, or both. It's a large debate and i need some support on how people who beleve in creationism should go to the faith schools aka privite schools, if they disbeleve in evolution so much, any sugestions? Also i need some support on macroevolution and microevolution if anyone can give me some url's to some sites that would be nice(i need the urls to be .net, .edu, or any one other than .com).Thank you,
cj

Glad you decided to stop by the campfire. Pull up a stump and set a spell, if you keep your feet to the fire then the smoke never gets in your eyes.The questions you asked have been discussed here many times. Start by reading the threads in Is it Science and Education and Creation/Evolution.

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I agree with Chiroptera that democracy ought to mean leaving people alone to do what they want about educating their children, and in fact about a great many other things the government has no business interfering in. What kind of "freedom" is it that requires parents to send their children to public schools if they don't want to? Why is it a problem if some children are brought up differently from others? Since when are uniformity and conformity such high values in a free society?Most of the institutions of Europe and America were founded in a Christian context and in fact served a Christian worldview, so I have no problem with government-funded Christian schools, but since the West is no longer Christian it gets very complicated dealing with the church-state problem and I'm not going to argue the point any more. If we have to pay for our own schools that's the way it goes.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-06-2006 12:47 PM

WJ,I am against faith schools in any form. The state should protect peoples rights to practice their religion, but not support it. Britain has become a (partly) racial & culturally ghettoised nation, & faith schools will only serve to exacerbate & perpetuate the situation. Many are already seeing multiculturalism in Britain as a failed experiment. I don't think it will be as bad as Northern Ireland, where faith schools were crucial in perpetuating the sectarian divide, but even a fraction of that nonsense is far, far too much.Moreover, I would like to say religion is a personal choice, but it isn't. These schools just make it easier for parents to remove choice from their children & foist their own beliefs on their kids. At least in a secular school the children would be exposed to more religions, & heaven forfend, agnosticism & atheism.Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Faith, I see where you are coming from here: The problem is that I think the government has the responsibility to protect children and provide them some basic rights.We punish parents or even take away children when parents don't provide medical care for their children (or the state provides the medical care).Is it fair to deny children an education because of their parents? This goes for home schooled kids that can barely do math... but we also have to protect kids who can't get a good education because of crappy inner city schools. I consider a basic education a fundamental right... others don't. I consider medical care a fundamental right... others don't. If we privatized our whole society their would be a violent revolt in less than a decade.

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Most of the institutions of Europe and America were founded in a Christian context and in fact served a Christian worldview, so I have no problem with government-funded Christian schools.

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OK, but do you have a problem with the following?Most of the institutions of The Middle East were founded in a Islamic context and in fact served a Islamic worldview, so I have no problem with government-funded Islamic schools.

We are talking about the right to a religious education, not denying children an education but giving them one some people don't approve of.

No. It's their business.

Well you mentioned public school which is a secular (non-religious, not anti- or pro-) form of education. This is the type of education one generally needs to be successful in modern society (there are a few exceptions, but most successful and productive people are high-school if not college graduates).I don't think anyone should have a right to a religious education... Also, no one should be prevented from getting a religious education. Maybe we agree here...... I think that religous education is none of the govts business and should not be the concern of the govt.However, this shouldn't mean that parents are allowed to deny their children a decent secular education just because they have the misguided notion that it conflicts with their religion