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Author Topic:   Will I see Hitler in heaven?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 1 of 99 (321756)
06-15-2006 7:47 AM


One of the great things about the "born-again" variety of Christianity (my own for a significant part of my life), is that I may well see Hitler in heaven - assuming he was saved just before his death.
Jar has often mentioned his view of everyone being saved. This too leads Hitler to heaven. But in a recent thread, Jar gave a possible suggestion that salvation could be lost... a more traditional works based salvation. In this case, Hitler has probably not quite made the grade!
I can think of no greater demonstration of the concept of grace than to see him there. So... what are the chances I will see Hitler in heaven? (assuming I make the grade given my almost continual heretical utterances)
Faith and belief?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Modulous, posted 06-15-2006 8:20 AM cavediver has not replied
 Message 12 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-15-2006 11:45 AM cavediver has replied
 Message 15 by sidelined, posted 06-15-2006 12:30 PM cavediver has replied
 Message 19 by jar, posted 06-15-2006 1:15 PM cavediver has replied

  
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 99 (321762)
06-15-2006 8:13 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 3 of 99 (321763)
06-15-2006 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
06-15-2006 7:47 AM


Personally I'd love to see Hitler in heaven and have a beer/wine with him. I'd assume he'd met with suitable punishment - and that all sins were forgiven. And all those people who had wronged me personally...there'd be no agendas in heaven so it would be awesome to hang out with them.
Biblically though, it's a sticky wicket, if I have any sense of inate morality then any God who was the ultimate judge and was also most merciful, would run a heaven scheme as above. I'd be expecting, and would welcome, any punishment under such a God.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 99 (321764)
06-15-2006 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Modulous
06-15-2006 8:20 AM


Personally I'd love to see Hitler in heaven and have a beer/wine with him
Hitler was a teetotaler.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Modulous, posted 06-15-2006 8:20 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 06-15-2006 8:35 AM robinrohan has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 5 of 99 (321765)
06-15-2006 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by robinrohan
06-15-2006 8:31 AM


Hitler was a teetotaler
More importantly, he was a mass murdering f**k-head. Given that we would be spiritual entities, I'd imagine there would be no reason to be teetotal. Also - alcohol probably works very differently on cloud nine.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by robinrohan, posted 06-15-2006 8:43 AM Modulous has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 99 (321769)
06-15-2006 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
06-15-2006 8:35 AM


Given that we would be spiritual entities, I'd imagine there would be no reason to be teetotal.
I think we need some rules for this game. I suggest the following rule: We cannot change their personalities from what they were on earth.
But it's up to Cavediver to decide.
If we went by the above rule, you'd be sitting there being subjected to a long barrage of ranting. You'd have a hard time working in a comment.

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 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 06-15-2006 8:35 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by cavediver, posted 06-15-2006 8:52 AM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 8 by Modulous, posted 06-15-2006 8:58 AM robinrohan has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 7 of 99 (321771)
06-15-2006 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by robinrohan
06-15-2006 8:43 AM


We cannot change their personalities from what they were on earth
So much of personality is driven by experience, genetics, emotions (chemicals). In my mind heaven is where you can be free of all this baggage. It is the freed Hitler whom I am interested in. Perhaps in heaven we are beings of pure logic... Faith would have a fit

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 Message 6 by robinrohan, posted 06-15-2006 8:43 AM robinrohan has not replied

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 8 of 99 (321774)
06-15-2006 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by robinrohan
06-15-2006 8:43 AM


Under such a scheme I wouldn't be having the drink. I'd assume that God was incompetent and lodge a complaint with the DSA (Deity standards Authority) (God did not rehabilitate offenders and they are in heaven etc).
But look at us, derailing the thread over inanity. There are some serious issues for Judeo-Christians to discuss here, so I'll bow out and let them at it.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 9 of 99 (321797)
06-15-2006 9:47 AM


I'm sure Hitler is looking up at us now and is not amused.
--Percy

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 99 (321833)
06-15-2006 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by cavediver
06-15-2006 8:52 AM


cavediver writes:
Perhaps in heaven we are beings of pure logic... Faith would have a fit
She would be singing!
As far as Hitler goes, I don't think anyone would recognize him, nor would we recognize each other in the sense of earthly recognition techniques and science.
Heaven would be full of people who got along with each other on a level that we may not understand now. How else could there be 24 hours a day of praise and adoration and no need for football games???

“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 99 (321837)
06-15-2006 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
06-15-2006 11:35 AM


Heaven would be full of people who got along with each other on a level that we may not understand now. How else could there be 24 hours a day of praise and adoration and no need for football games???
I don't think I could handle it.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5834 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 12 of 99 (321838)
06-15-2006 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
06-15-2006 7:47 AM


This presents a problem
This scenario presents a major problem for those who believe in salvation by faith alone.
Under that scenario Pat Robertson gets into heaven, but ghandi does not.
This is a HUGE problem and pretty much proves that either their god is incompetent/foolish or that the faith alone concept is BS

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by cavediver, posted 06-15-2006 7:47 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by robinrohan, posted 06-15-2006 11:47 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied
 Message 18 by cavediver, posted 06-15-2006 1:14 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 99 (321843)
06-15-2006 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-15-2006 11:45 AM


Re: This presents a problem
Under that scenario Pat Robertson gets into heaven, but ghandi does not.
Pat Robertson may not be sincere.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-15-2006 11:45 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5834 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 14 of 99 (321844)
06-15-2006 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by robinrohan
06-15-2006 11:47 AM


Re: This presents a problem
Well how about jerry falwell or james dobson or any of the other miscreant evangelicals?
I'm sure there has to be one of those guys that believes... unless we want to play "no true christian"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by robinrohan, posted 06-15-2006 11:47 AM robinrohan has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 15 of 99 (321861)
06-15-2006 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
06-15-2006 7:47 AM


cavediver
I can think of no greater demonstration of the concept of grace than to see him there
Grace for Hitler. Amazing. Makes you wonder what all the fuss of world war 2 was about not to mention the silly posturings of the Jewish people from the death camps.
I mean, hell there is an afterlife where all those atrocities are meaningless.Just think of the wonderous conversations you can have with the likes of,say, Jeffrey Dahlmer.
"Say jeff? When you are scarfing down a piece of human flesh and you get thirsty, do you prefer red or white wine?
A heaven such as this is just as ludicrous in my view as a hell for Hitler. I mean what punishment do you inflict sufficient to balance the scales? Do you place him in a long windowless barn ,naked, and tell him he is going to have a shower? Do you place him on a battlefield to let the bullet leads rip his flesh? Or perhaps the russian front line with his own troops,starving and so cold he cannot pull a trigger?
Heaven and hell are the illusions we embrace to punish and reward those that we individually value and devalue .And the greatest tragedy of it all is that we will not end the illusion.
Wilfred Owen called it " the eternal reciprocity of tears".

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-15-2006 4:20 PM sidelined has replied

  
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