Spiritual vs. physical

why do people always say that the spiritual is more important than the physical? i just don't get it. what do people REALLY mean when they say "spiritual", anyway? and when they say "physical" are they referring to the senses in general? if so, i live for the physical rather than the spiritual, and i'm not ashamed of it whatsoever.

I suppose it is a matter of materialism/hedonism vs love/friendship. You would agree that love/friendship is more important than money or pleasure wouldn't you?

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Originally posted by blitz77:
I suppose it is a matter of materialism/hedonism vs love/friendship. You would agree that love/friendship is more important than money or pleasure wouldn't you?

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Love and friendship are spiritual? This is assumption and I disagree. Besides which, in my experience the more spiritual a person believes themself to be the less loving and friendly they become. I much prefer material and hedonistic-- less pretension.------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

I agree, for the most part. I think that people reject the "physical" for the "spiritual" because it gives them a greater sense of worth. It makes them feel superior.

Pleasure is one of, if not the most important thing in my life. I honestly don't understand what is wrong with this. A lot of pleasure is gained from love and friendship. The basic goal of love/friendship is pleasure: for the giver, receiver, or both. Money is not really physical or material...it is really just a symbol. The things you can get with money, on the other hand....
Also, aren't we overlooking the sensory pleasure that can be achieved without owning anything? I'm referring to the physical beauty of nature. Is that too considered less important than spirituality? What defines material/physical, and what defines spiritual?[This message has been edited by hiddenexit77, 08-12-2002]

And furthermore, what about art in all its forms? Poetry, visual art, music, all those indescribably wonderful things? How do they fit in? Is it materialistic to be an avid music listener, for instance?

I suppose you could classify it according to depth-like joy is deeper than happiness. Pleasure is not the most important thing in love/friendship--however, it may result from it. Sensory pleasure is still materialistic-it is physical, not spiritual-you can be sad, in a bad situation, unhappy-but still have joy. If you are happy, you might not have joy.

No--those are aesthetic, which is still physical.I like dictionary.com's definitions--
Spiritual--adj.
1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.Physical--adj.
1. Of or relating to the body as distinguished from the mind or spirit. See Synonyms at bodily.
2. Of or relating to material things: our physical environment.
3. Of or relating to matter and energy or the sciences dealing with them, especially physics.

So you are saying that the pleasure is more important than the relationship--however, you can buy pleasure but not love/friendship.A spiritual person would be one who helps others. A hedonist / materialist does things just for themselves.

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Originally posted by blitz77:
So you are saying that the pleasure is more important than the relationship--however, you can buy pleasure but not love/friendship.

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I said nothing about buying anything. Nor did I say anyything about pleasure being more important than love/friendship/relationships. I do believe that there is nothing abstract about love or relationships. Such things are also not driven purely by pleasure--- o' that they were!

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A spiritual person would be one who helps others. A hedonist / materialist does things just for themselves.

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I do not believe that true idealized altruism exists at all within humanity. So this distinction just tells me that the 'spiritual' are decieving themselves. Why help others? God's good graces? Karma? Escaping the cycle of rebirth? Avoiding Hell? Hopin' to visit some houri in the afterlife? Doesn't really sound all that selfless to me.------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

My God, I think I must agree with John on that! Why do religious people do nice things? Because a reward awaits the good! because there is a hell if we do otherwise!What is hell for, anyway?

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do not believe that true idealized altruism exists at all within humanity. So this distinction just tells me that the 'spiritual' are decieving themselves. Why help others? God's good graces? Karma? Escaping the cycle of rebirth? Avoiding Hell? Hopin' to visit some houri in the afterlife? Doesn't really sound all that selfless to me.

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I'll just respond in the context of Christianity. We help others because we love God and God wants us to help each other--like Jesus told us to--"Love your neighbour as yourself" which comes out of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul."

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What is hell for, anyway?

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Hell is for those who reject Jesus, and by rejecting Jesus, God. But then of course, you'll probably argue, why would a loving God send people to hell? However, you are making the assumption that love allows the object of that love to do whatever he or she wants. However, this permissive kind of "love" isn't really love at all.

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Originally posted by blitz77:

Hell is for those who reject Jesus, and by rejecting Jesus, God. But then of course, you'll probably argue, why would a loving God send people to hell? However, you are making the assumption that love allows the object of that love to do whatever he or she wants. However, this permissive kind of "love" isn't really love at all.

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What about if I say that under my religious circumstances, you can go to Hell if you consider Jesus, a prophet of God, is God? God does not want equals, even from His messengers. Jesus himself would agree on that.You need verses? Just ask.

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Originally posted by John:
I do not believe that true idealized altruism exists at all within humanity.

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I'm not entirely sure I agree with this statement (hey, there's always a first time for everything...) Would you define your terms ("true idealized altruism") a bit more? There's pretty strong inference for the adaptive value of altruism for gregarious species - especially humans with their complex cultural as well as biological structures. The more complex the social behaviors/interractions, the more likely altruism is to be manifested.