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Author Topic:   Favorite Bible Version
Monk
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 1 of 85 (190604)
03-08-2005 11:31 AM


I have read numerous Bible quotes throughout this forum and find that a majority of them are from the King James Version (KJV). This version was presented in published form to King James of England in 1611 and has been the Standard English version for nearly 400 years. Despite its authoritative nature, I find the use of thees and thous to be distracting. I can generally understand the meaning of the verses, but not without effort.
My favorite is the New International Version (NIV) for three reasons: First, I find it easy to understand; second, it was translated using a mixture of the ancient texts over several years and by over 100 biblical scholars from a variety of Christian denominations. In essence, I believe that potential bias by a single person or denomination was minimized; finally, it was the first Bible I picked up when I began searching for the Lord, so it holds a special significance for me.
That’s not to say that I don’t read other versions. I often compare the same verse in different versions to gain a new perspective and sometimes new insights.
I’m not looking for a debate as to which Bible version is the best. I believe we can all agree that the best version for a believer is one that speaks to the heart of the individual.
I also understand that certain Christian denominations require the use of a particular version and that’s Ok by me, whatever floats yer boat.
BTW, non-believers are welcome to join the discussion, but please be nice. Comments like, The best Bible version is the one burning in the fireplace, do nothing but incite rancor.
So what’s your flavor?

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AdminJar
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Message 2 of 85 (190616)
03-08-2005 12:25 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6787 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 3 of 85 (190623)
03-08-2005 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Monk
03-08-2005 11:31 AM


Jerusalem Bible
As a Protestant, this will seem a touch odd, but my favorite translation is the (Catholic) Jerusalem Bible. It has some odd touches, but the first editions (with some tremendous explanatory notes) keep the flavor and beauty of the original without being distracting, in my opinion. The fact that J.R.R. himself worked on it (in a minor role, I think, but still involved) shows the level that they were aiming for, and in my opinion, achieved. I'm not sure that I'd use it for complete textual examinations (NASB is supposedly the best for that, but since I don't know the languages I have no opinion) but for simply reading I think it is my favorite.
On the subject of the NIV, I wonder if it is biased towards the literalist interpretation: compare Gen 2:17 in the NIV with the New American Standard, KJV, or New Revised Standard translations as a perfect example. One of them has a very different meaning from the other three (those four being the four most popular translations in use by modern American Protestant churches, as I understand it). While I don't know enough Hebrew to have an opinion, it leads me to suspect that the NIV translators allowed their interpretation to color their translation (this has probably been discussed to death before here).
Chris

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 4 of 85 (190635)
03-08-2005 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Monk
03-08-2005 11:31 AM


I usually quote from the NASB as it is reputedly one of the more accurate translations (better than the NIV and KJV) and because it is relatively easy to understand.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 5 of 85 (190636)
03-08-2005 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Monk
03-08-2005 11:31 AM


I'd like a bible that would contain all the scriptuire found like thomas and all the apochrypha whatever else isn't in the Luther reformed of even the catholic bible which I like for putting more books in.
This message has been edited by chris porcelain, 03-08-2005 14:21 AM

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 6 of 85 (190637)
03-08-2005 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by PaulK
03-08-2005 2:17 PM


Yeah the new american standard translates word for word the niv translates phrase for phrase.

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Monk
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 7 of 85 (190651)
03-08-2005 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by cmanteuf
03-08-2005 1:10 PM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
cmanteuf writes:
On the subject of the NIV, I wonder if it is biased towards the literalist interpretation: compare Gen 2:17 in the NIV with the New American Standard, KJV, or New Revised Standard translations as a perfect example. One of them has a very different meaning from the other three (those four being the four most popular translations in use by modern American Protestant churches, as I understand it).
Well, let’s post all four and compare: (Note: I’m quoting verses 16 and 17 to show the complete thought).
NIV: (16) And the Lord God commanded the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; (17) but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it, you will surely die.
NASB: (16) The Lord God commanded the man, saying, From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; (17)but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
NRSV: (16) And the Lord God commanded the man, ‘You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; (17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.’
KJV: (16)And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17)but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I don’t see much of a difference. The NIV does not use the term in the day as is the case in the other three, but is that a very different meaning?
Here’s a few other translations:
New American Bible (16) The Lord God gave man this order: You are free to eat from any of the trees of the garden (17) except the tree of knowledge of good and bad. From that tree you shall not eat; the moment you eat from it you are surely doomed to die.
New Living Translation (16)But the Lord God gave him this warning: "You may freely eat any fruit in the garden (17)except fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat of its fruit, you will surely die."
Regarding interpretations, here’s what the authors of the NIV say in the Preface:
The first concern of the translators has been the accuracy of the translation and its fidelity to the thought of the biblical writers. They have weighed the significance of the lexical and grammatical details of the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. At the same time, they have striven for more than a word-for-word translation. Because thought patterns and syntax differ from language to language, faithful communication of the meaning of the writers of the Bible demand frequent modifications in sentence structure and constant regard for the contextual meanings of words.

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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 85 (190657)
03-08-2005 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Monk
03-08-2005 3:23 PM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
Yes, I believe there is a difference. The difference is in the part left out, the timing of death and indirectly, what is meant by death.
The NLT and the NIV make death something that can happen at some indefinite time in the future. The change was made to try to allow a semi-literal interpretation of the verses without the issue of GOD lying. The idea stems from the concept that death first entered the history after the apple is eaten and/or, death was meant spiritually as opposed to literally.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6787 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 9 of 85 (190665)
03-08-2005 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Monk
03-08-2005 3:23 PM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
MyMonkey writes:
NIV: (16) And the Lord God commanded the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; (17) but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it, you will surely die.
NASB: (16) The Lord God commanded the man, saying, From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; (17)but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
NRSV: (16) And the Lord God commanded the man, ‘You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; (17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.’
KJV: (16)And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17)but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I think that what gets me is the removal of any reference to it being the same day. And that that does make quite a difference, at least to me. Looking at it from the NASB, NRSV, or KJV, it would appear that God had mercy on the poor humans, changing their fate and allowing them to live when previously he had foretold death. The NIV, on the other hand, makes support for one literalist interpretation (that it was the Fall that introduced Death into the world) much more palatable, IMO. It can much more easily be read to support that belief, though it does not enforce that belief.
(This is not the proper place to discuss the two different interpretations of the Fall, though I briefly touched on it above. A good discussion of this has already been started, I see, over at http://EvC Forum: Is Genesis to be taken literally Part II -->EvC Forum: Is Genesis to be taken literally Part II
You can read what they've written and we can discuss it over there, if you wish, though I warn you that both my knowledge and faith about this topic are beneath that of many of the posters on the group, and so my end of the discussion would be below what is currently there.)
Chris

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Monk
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 10 of 85 (190668)
03-08-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
03-08-2005 3:48 PM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
jar writes:
The change was made to try to allow a semi-literal interpretation of the verses without the issue of GOD lying. The idea stems from the concept that death first entered the history after the apple is eaten and/or, death was meant spiritually as opposed to literally.
Ok, I see. I also see why it's good to reference thought-for-thought translations. A literalist would need to defend errancy in the other versions since obviously Adam and Eve did not physically die "in that day".

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Monk
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 11 of 85 (190670)
03-08-2005 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by cmanteuf
03-08-2005 4:09 PM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
cmanteuf writes:
You can read what they've written and we can discuss it over there, if you wish, though I warn you that both my knowledge and faith about this topic are beneath that of many of the posters on the group, and so my end of the discussion would be below what is currently there.)
I think you are being most humble regarding your knowledge as evidenced by your eloquent posts to this thread, and I agree that the referenced thread would be a better place to discuss the topic, so let's drop it here.

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cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6787 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 12 of 85 (190769)
03-09-2005 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Monk
03-08-2005 4:46 PM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
One thing that is actually on topic that I forgot to mention above- the Jerusalem Bible now comes in many different forms, as is common with Bibles. The Readers Edition removes many of the wonderful notes, so I don't recommend it. The early editions I do recommend; the current version (link to amazon for paperback at: Amazon.com) has removed some of the notes (but still has many of them). My Dad has the original edition; I use the newer one. I'm not sure which of the many versions available at Amazon is the one that has all of the notes of the original edition- I tried to purchase one second hand from them but ended up with the readers edition. If you see an old one with lots of notes at a second-hand book store I recommend it.
And its always fun to read the Deutero-Cannonical books, no matter what you think of their spiritual quality. I would never have encountered Ecclesiasticus' Let Us Now Praise Famous Men section (starting in Chap 44), which I like, if not for this translation.
Incidentally, MyMonkey, is that your kid in your avatar?
Chris

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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 85 (190773)
03-09-2005 11:44 AM


A source for some comparisons
One of the online sources for comparing different versions of the Bible can be found here. It is a handy reference but does not get into as deep an analysis as some others.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

  
Monk
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 14 of 85 (190787)
03-09-2005 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by cmanteuf
03-09-2005 11:17 AM


Re: Jerusalem Bible
cmanteuf writes:
One thing that is actually on topic that I forgot to mention above- the Jerusalem Bible now comes in many different forms, as is common with Bibles.
Yes, I find the various study bibles very informative
cmanteuf writes:
And its always fun to read the Deutero-Cannonical books, no matter what you think of their spiritual quality. I would never have encountered Ecclesiasticus' Let Us Now Praise Famous Men section (starting in Chap 44), which I like, if not for this translation.
I would agree. I find reading the Apocrypha, as Protestants describe the collection, to be interesting and the first few verses of Chapter 44 in Ecclesiasticus (Book of Sirach) are certainly famous.
It does seem at times that it’s like throwing the baby out with the bath water, when Protestant Bibles exclude the Apocrypha as does the NIV. On the other hand, one can read this collection of seven books and four parts of books and can begin to understand why it is that Roman Catholics and Protestants have such doctrinal differences.
I’m fairly strong in my faith and comfortable with my religion, so I like to read all sorts of material and can do so without an internal conflict arising. Even stuff that is non-scriptural such as the pseudepigraphal books or so called Lost Books of the Bible . Some of those writings are really strange.
Yea, that's my daughter Sophie

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nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 15 of 85 (191050)
03-11-2005 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Monk
03-08-2005 11:31 AM


I refer to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible most often, and it can be viewed here:
Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon
There's also a similar treatement of the Quran and the Book of Mormon at that site. Very useful.

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