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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
Angeldust
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 304 (173154)
01-02-2005 7:42 PM


I'm not sure that this is the most appropriate place to ask the question as this is more of a Biblical question than a creo question, but I don't hang around many of these forums so I thought I'd ask here.

I'm not an endtime prophecy buff, usually I leave the speculation about it alone. Too much other stuff to worry about than when the world's going to end. However, I heard (sadly, didn't obtain) a very convincing article (author unknown to me)relating to negotiations by someone named Javier Solona. If I remember correctly he's the foreign affairs guy in the European Union. He's currently working on a seven year peace treaty involving 17(?) countries in the middle east, including Isreal, for some economic reasons - letting them into the EU trading block. The peace treaty would come into effect on January 1, 2007. It would be reviewed at the 3 1/2 mark.

My question being. Where is the scriptures that talk about the peace treaty, and does anybody else know anything about this guy? I'm not pointing fingers and saying "Look! There's the Anti-Christ!" because people have been doing that 2000 years and have been wrong every time. However, any information you could give to satisfy my curiosity would be greatly appreciated.


Replies to this message:
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AdminDawg
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 304 (173186)
01-02-2005 10:03 PM


PLEASE NOTE that this is to be a Q&A prophecy thread, not an atheist-bash-Christian-prophecy thread!!!

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

This message has been edited by AdminDawg, 01-02-2005 22:05 AM


  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 3 of 304 (173191)
01-02-2005 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Angeldust
01-02-2005 7:42 PM


http://www.bible-prophecy.com/

http://www.raptureme.com

might be useful to you as far as specific verses.

I'm not a prophecy buff either, but I do know a few things.

If you already know the following, you can skip it.

In Daniel 8, I believe, the 70 sevens (490 years) are decried with an interruption at the 69th seven. Christ was that interruption and there are now seven years remaining to be fulfilled at an unknown date. This 7-year period is called the tribulation when in Revelation the bowls of wrath are poured out upon the earth. Apparently Christians are to be taken away before this happens, but there is some debate on this. There will be 4 major super-powers: the kings of the North, South, East, and West. Were it to happen today these would be Russia, Arab Aliance, China, and the UN/EU. The Anti-Christ is supposed to be head of the Western block and have 10 under him. He is supposed to make a seven year peace treaty with Israel and attempt to once and for all secure peace on earth. The Anti-Christ is killed at the halfway mark and raised to life again possessed by satan. The second half of the tribulation is filled with even more catastrophe eventually the one world government breaks down into its four main components and they meet in a battle over the valley of Meggido.


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 4 of 304 (173197)
01-02-2005 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Angeldust
01-02-2005 7:42 PM


It's Javier Solana.

He is Secretary-General of the Council of the EU and High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP). He was the Sectretary General of NATO before that.

Link to info on Dr. Solana.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12445
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5 of 304 (173289)
01-03-2005 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Angeldust
01-02-2005 7:42 PM


There is suppposed to be a seven-year treaty in Daniel 9:27

"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

As you can see there is no mention of a review after 3 1/2 years, and of course there is no way that the U.N. would try to stop even animal sacrifice let alone grain offerings.

In fact the Daniel "prophecies" are mainly about events of the 2nd Century - the "King of the North" is the Seleucid monarch Antiochus IV Epiphanes who conquered Judah and did indeed stop the sacrifices in the Temple.

This message has been edited by PaulK, 01-03-2005 04:16 AM


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Guido Arbia
Member (Idle past 165 days)
Posts: 545
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 6 of 304 (174849)
01-07-2005 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by PaulK
01-03-2005 4:13 AM


The bible makes it clear that these things will come when we least expect it. When man kind has lost alot of hope in god, and through loads a failures they come to the conclusion that jesus isn't coming. Not only that, they begin to hope that jesus isn't coming. And the time that jesus comes is nice and close to the tribulation. Right before in the rapture, real quick, and right after. So there are actually 3 comings of the lord.

The first: To save the world of sin.
The seccond: To save the christians from some crazy anti-christ political oppression.
The third: To come back and just say, "eh, goto hell satan." and it is so.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 7 of 304 (174893)
01-07-2005 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Angeldust
01-02-2005 7:42 PM


Based on what I found on a few end-time prophecy websites I suspect what is being talked about is the European Neighbourhood Policy. This is the home page of the relevant section of Europa (a web site maintained by the European Commision) - there are endless links you can follow to find out what it's all about.

It isn't a treaty in any way shape or form as far as I can tell. It's an EU policy to improve trade (it's almost always about money), security and general relations with a variety of nearby countries. Just over half of these are Middle Eastern Countries - the rest are countries which used to be in the USSR. An alphabetical list :

  • Algeria
  • Armenia
  • Azerbaijan
  • Belarus
  • Egypt
  • Georgia
  • Israel
  • Jordan
  • Lebanon
  • Libya
  • Moldova
  • Morocco
  • Syria
  • Tunisia
  • Ukraine
  • The Palestinian Authority (not a country)

It should be noted that there will be individual agreements between the EU and each of the countries, this is not a single agreement between all of them.

The only reference I can find to seven years is that the financial proposals covering this policy are in the EU budgetary period of 2007 to 2013.

As far as I'm concerned anybody who's talking about this as a peace treaty between the EU and Israel (or anyone else) is either lying through their teeth or grasping at straws to make current events fit their own religious views. The individual agreements the EU will enter into with the various countries are further away from being a peace treaty than the NAFTA agreement was between Canada, the US and Mexico.


Confused ? You will be...
This message is a reply to:
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Guido Arbia
Member (Idle past 165 days)
Posts: 545
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 8 of 304 (174911)
01-07-2005 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by MangyTiger
01-07-2005 9:04 PM


Like I said, it will happen when we think it won't happen. I ain't gona say when this is gona happen. How should I know. I hope that the return of christ is soon and during my lifetime.
This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12445
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 9 of 304 (174955)
01-08-2005 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Guido Arbia
01-07-2005 7:16 PM


Your comments don't really address my point that the events that we can tell are coming do not really match the prophecies - and that those prophecies referred to events that happened more than 100 years before Jesus was born.
This message is a reply to:
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CWHJr
Junior Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 06-22-2007


Message 10 of 304 (406908)
06-22-2007 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by PaulK
01-03-2005 4:13 AM


King of the North
Hey Paulk;
I have a question for you. I have heard others teach that Daniel 9;27 was fulfilled by Epephanes. Correct me if i am wrong but wasn't he the one who put down the Maccabees a few hundred years before Jesus showed up. If that is so then why did Jesus say to ''watch for the abomination that Daniel talked about'', as if it were in the future. One and one must equil 2. As well, did not set up an abomination that caused desolation. He cooked porkchops. And there was no 7 year covenant in place at the time.
Since the time said Jesus to watch for this event, the event has never taken place. However, Solana is attempting to get a 7 year agreement this year. The temple is ready to build, all of the cattle are ready for steak dinners, the EU is set up with 10 kings ruling the 27 in total, the veri chip is raedy and being carried forward by the us......
This message is a reply to:
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CWHJr
Junior Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 06-22-2007


Message 11 of 304 (406909)
06-22-2007 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by MangyTiger
01-07-2005 9:04 PM


Not a peace treaty??
Mangytiger;
If you will take a close look at Daniel 9;27 you will find that there is no mention of a peace treaty. It is a covenant, or agreement , between many nations. What Solana is working on is an agreement between many nations. There is a lot of bible prophecy being taught that is in gross error, like a treaty, but if you will set your heart on the truth you will see that the bible is indeed unfolding beforte your very eyes. ''Study prophecy as if it were light until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your heart.'' Notice this verse does not say to study what todays teachers are saying about prophecy and its meaning. Study the word to show yourself aproved. You will learn the truth .
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 304 (406925)
06-23-2007 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by CWHJr
06-22-2007 11:03 PM


Profoundly Put!
CWHJr writes:

Notice this verse does not say to study what todays teachers are saying about prophecy and its meaning. Study the word to show yourself aproved. You will learn the truth .

Exactly! A hearty welcome to EvC, CWH. Your statement is close to a paraphrase of Revelation 1:3 which states: "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand."

I began over 50 years ago as a child delving into the prophecies by reading everyone's book on prophecy I could get ahold of. I also studied the scriptures daily. What I began to discover is that the prophecy professionals were wrong on just about everything major.

I just opened this thread and it's too late now to post. Perhaps I will find time to weigh in on the topic late tomorrow.


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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12445
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 13 of 304 (406971)
06-23-2007 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by CWHJr
06-22-2007 10:53 PM


Re: King of the North
Oh it's quite simple. When the end of the world failed to happen according to schedule the prophecies were just reinterpreted - except that you can still see that the author of Daniel was really referring to Antichus IV Epihanes. I think you'll find that there was acovenant in place, at the time, too.

Jesus was wrong. Daniel's abomination was Antiochus IV Epiphanes defilement of the Temple.

The Temple is NOT ready to be rebuilt - there are formidable oppbstacles still to be dealt with. The EU is nothing like Daniel's Empires (for a start it wasn't founded by on of Alexander's successors !) and I've no idea what "veri chip" you meaen or how it's supposed to relate to the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12445
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 14 of 304 (406973)
06-23-2007 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Buzsaw
06-23-2007 12:07 AM


Re: Profoundly Put!
I want to agree with the sentiment that you should read ther Bible. I also want to say that unlike the other people who have said it, I really mean it.

Buzsaw ceratinly does not. That's why he's retreated to refusing to cite the Bible verses that he claims support his views. Because he knows that if he does so they will be read and the truth will be uncovered.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 304 (407127)
06-24-2007 12:18 PM


My apologies for the delay in responding to the OP. I've not had the time to do all the research I want to do. I'll weigh in as when I can get the time to put into it.
  
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