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Author Topic:   Christian Laws
Peg
Member (Idle past 2670 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 1 of 392 (511848)
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


Dedicated to Purpledawn who as asked to see a list of christian laws.

Unlike the Mosaic Law, the Christian laws are not given as one continuous list of laws. They are found throughout the writings of the NT in discussions and discourses given by the Apostles. So you need to read the NT in its entirety to find them.

At 1 COR 9:21 the Apostle Paul said

quote:
"I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ"

So what exactly is the Law of the Christ?

It was always Gods purpose to remove the burden of the Mosaic law from the people and given them a new one.
"Look! There are days coming and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a NEW COVENANT; not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers [Mosiac Law]" (Jer31:31)

quote:
Hebrews 9:15 So that is why he [Jesus] is a mediator of a NEW COVENANT, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance

As you can see it is scriptural. The mosaic law was fortold to be removed and a new covenant, a new avenue of approach to God, was to be put in place. The Apostles of Christ confirmed that the new covenant had come into place and they called it the 'Law of the Christ'

So what is it?

The law of the Christ is repeatedly associated with freedom. The apostles referred to it as "the law of a free people" and "the perfect law that belongs to freedom." (John 8:31, 32 & James 1:25, 2:12)
This is the most unique aspect of the law....unlike the Mosaic law, no one is born into it. One must choose it and no one can compel another to live by it. Also race and place of birth are irrelevant, it is completely based on free will.

While the Mosaic Law was designed to teach man that he is sinful and in dire need of a sacrifice to redeem him, the law of the Christ taught that the Messiah had come, paid the ransom price with his life, and opened the way for us to be freed from sin and death.

quote:
Gal 3:19 "Why, then, the [mosaic] Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive "

Another stiking difference between the two covenants is that Jesus never wrote down a single law. Instead, he lived this law. By means of his perfect life course, he laid down a pattern for all to follow.

So really, understanding the Law of the Christ, means understanding Jesus the Man. This explains why Christianity was called 'The Way' in the first century. It was a way of life that the followers of christ lived. To imitate Jesus was to obey this law. Their intense love of him meant that this law was indeed written on their hearts, as prophesied and because love motivated them, they were not oppressed by the law, it was as Jesus said
"Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am mild tempered and lowly at heart and you will find refreshment for your souls"

Peter also mentioned this when he said :

quote:
1Peter2:21 In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely. ...When he was being reviled, he did not go reviling in return. When he was suffering, he did not go threatening, but kept on committing himself to the one who judges righteously.

The essence of Christian law is love. They were taught to love as Jesus did. They were to base all their actions on Love and in this way they could fulfill the law of the Christ.

The sermon on the mount and some of Jesus parables such as the good samaritan are codes of conduct that Jesus practiced and worthy of imitation.

Here are a few more...perhaps others can add to the list.
_____________________________________

1. John 13:34 I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another.
_______________
2. Galatians 6:2 "Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ"
_____________
3. 1John 4:21 "21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also"
_____________
4. 1John 3:23 "Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and be loving one another"
______________
5. Matt 28:18 "And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying:...Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU
_____________
6. Eph 5:33 "let each one of YOU individually so love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband"
_____________
7. Acts 15:28 "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication"
_____________
8. Eph 4:29 "Let a rotten saying not proceed out of your mouth, but whatever saying is good for building up as the need may be, that it may impart what is favorable to the hearers."
____________
9. Romans 13:13 "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities"
_____________
10. 1Timothy 3:3-12 (these requirements put polygamy on the outer)
"be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3 not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money, 8 be serious, not double-tongued, not giving themselves to a lot of wine, not greedy of dishonest gain, 9 holding the sacred secret of the faith with a clean conscience.
11 Women should likewise be serious, not slanderous, moderate in habits, faithful in all things.
12 Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife
______________

Please feel free to add NT laws to the list.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by purpledawn, posted 06-15-2009 3:08 PM Peg has responded
 Message 13 by purpledawn, posted 06-15-2009 3:18 PM Peg has responded
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AdminNosy
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Message 2 of 392 (511849)
06-12-2009 10:11 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10659
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 3 of 392 (512163)
06-15-2009 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


Law & Order
I always thought that the law was now written on our hearts?
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 2670 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 4 of 392 (512175)
06-15-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
06-15-2009 2:35 AM


Re: Law & Order
Phat writes:

I always thought that the law was now written on our hearts?

the laws are written on hearts, but a person must first learn what those christian principles and moral standards are, otherwise how will they get there?


This message is a reply to:
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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 5 of 392 (512190)
06-15-2009 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


Hi, Peg.

Interesting topic.

Peg writes:

The mosaic law was fortold to be removed and a new covenant, a new avenue of approach to God, was to be put in place.

I'm curious. In your opinion, what does this mean for the 10 Commandments?

Do they still stand as a code of conduct for Christians to follow? Or, are they outdated now?

-----

Peg writes:

It was a way of life that the followers of christ lived. To imitate Jesus was to obey this law. Their intense love of him meant that this law was indeed written on their hearts, as prophesied and because love motivated them, they were not oppressed by the law...

I have never understood why the authority to dictate Christian laws, as you see them, continues after Christ's death (as in Paul's letters), but ends before the Middle Ages?

It always seemed like an arbitrary cutoff point to me.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peg, posted 06-12-2009 10:04 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 6 of 392 (512211)
06-15-2009 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


John 13:34
Thanks for starting this thread Peg. Because I tend to take time to prepare my posts, I won't be able to address each law in a single post. So a post may address one or more of the laws mentioned. It doesn't mean I am ignoring any one law listed.

In the "Are We Prisoners of Sin" thread, Peg brought up the concept of Christian Laws and God's Laws.

PurpleDawn writes:

Peg writes:

Message 344 Anyone who wants to benefit from that salvation MUST put their faith in Jesus Christ and must follow him. This goes for Gentiles too...they must submit to Christian law and the teaching of Christs Apostles. Gods laws and mans are quite different and just because a gentile follows the laws of their land does not mean that they have a righteous standing with God. They must follow Gods laws in order to obtain that. Remember that it is 'Faith' in God that counts a person as righteous, not works of any law.

To show faith in God, one must adopt HIS laws....or better put, live as he directs.


What I'm reading is that following God's law does not make one righteous or get one on the list for resurrection, only faith in Jesus Christ can get one on the list. BUT, to show faith in God, one must adopt his laws or live as he directs. So we still have to follow "the law" even though it doesn't get us a spot, but yet it does. See the contradiction? Again, make up your mind.

As I understand what Peg is saying, to be declared righteous before the Christian God one must submit to God's Laws, Christian Laws, and the teachings of the Apostles. So I had asked that the laws that Christians are held accountable to on judgment day be listed. I stated my reasons for wanting this list in Message 388 of that thread.

PurpleDawn writes:

I keep asking because Christians can't produce their own standards of behavior and provide support that those standards carry a death penalty from God on judgment day.

I keep asking because Christians keep claiming that the Mosaic Law came to and end, but keep holding people up to portions of that law.

I keep asking because Christians avoid the issue.

When I say law, I mean something legally binding and enforced by a controlling authority.

Law - a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority

Principle - a: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption b (1): a rule or code of conduct

Standard - something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example

Principles and standards aren't necessarily binding or enforced by a controlling authority.

The Mosaic Laws in the OT were written as laws that had consequences that would be enforced by the controlling human authority and sometimes by God. The Written Torah Law Was Only A Small Proportion of Jewish Law in the First Century.

Although it was of course the bedrock of Jewish law, THE God breathed WRITTEN Torah-law which we have in our Bibles, was only about 3.5% of Jewish Torah-Law during the times recorded in the New Testament.

The Oral Law was also enforced by the controlling human authority.

Looking at the "list" that Peg provided, the word law seems to have lost its legality.

Christian Laws according to Peg.

Interesting that you didn't mention the two most important commandments supposedly expressed by Jesus to one of the teachers of the law depicted in Mark 12:28-31 and restated in Matthew 22:34-40. Of course those two are part of what you call the Mosaic Law.

1. John 13:34 I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another.

The Gospel according to John is estimated to be written 90-120CE. What authority makes this an enforceable law?

The problems I see with this being a legal law is that:
1. Jesus is talking to his 11 disciples after Judas left and seems to mean amongst themselves, not necessarily others.
2. The verb "love" as used today carries a more limited meaning ( to hold dear) than the Greek "agapaō" seems to carry. (to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly). Christian view of agape: In the New Testament, agapē is charitable, selfless, altruistic, and unconditional. It is parental love, seen as creating goodness in the world; it is the way God is seen to love humanity, and it is seen as the kind of love that Christians aspire to have for one another. The Christian version is amongst Christians, not necessarily all mankind.
3. We don't really know how Jesus "loved" his disciples. There are no specifics for people to know what they are being judged against.

This "new" commandment doesn't seem to be any different than the love your neighbor as yourself commandment (Leviticus 19:18) that Jesus said was the second most important commandment taken by the Mishnah (a central text of the Jewish oral law) to refer to good deeds, willingness to sacrifice one's life rather than commit certain serious transgressions, willingness to sacrifice all of one's possessions, and being grateful to the Lord despite adversity (tractate Berachoth 9:5).

So this one is an OT "law" brought forward. Nothing new. Who enforces this law?


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peg, posted 06-12-2009 10:04 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Peg, posted 06-15-2009 9:48 AM purpledawn has responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 2670 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 7 of 392 (512212)
06-15-2009 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Blue Jay
06-15-2009 7:46 AM


Hi bluejay,

Bluejay writes:

I'm curious. In your opinion, what does this mean for the 10 Commandments?

Do they still stand as a code of conduct for Christians to follow? Or, are they outdated now?

as you know, the Mosaic Law was given only to the isrealites and no other nation. according to Paul it had a special purpose..."To make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made . . . Consequently the Law has become our tutor [or, teacher] leading to Christ." Galatians 3:19-24

Once the Christ had appeard, he fulfilled the requirements of the Law and sacrificed himself for the salvation of all mankind. When God accepted Jesus sacrifice Paul could say at Gal 3:10 "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law," and at Rom 10.4 Christ is the end of the Law"

Regarding the 10 commandments, Paul showed that christians were no longer required to observe even them.

Rom 7:6-7 "Now we have been discharged from the Law...Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: 'You must not covet.'"

You probably recognize that law as the last of the Ten Commandments. This shows the whole law including the sabbaths, festivals, sacrifices and all that went along with it was no longer relevant.

bluejay writes:

I have never understood why the authority to dictate Christian laws, as you see them, continues after Christ's death (as in Paul's letters), but ends before the Middle Ages?

It always seemed like an arbitrary cutoff point to me.

you may not realize it, but I think you are referring to the Great Apostasy that was foretold by the apostles. It was to be a time of darkness for those in the congregations. Perhaps its better for another thread.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 2670 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 8 of 392 (512217)
06-15-2009 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by purpledawn
06-15-2009 9:13 AM


Re: John 13:34
Hi purpledawn,

Purpledawn writes:

When I say law, I mean something legally binding and enforced by a controlling authority. The Mosaic Laws in the OT were written as laws that had consequences that would be enforced by the controlling human authority and sometimes by God.

The christian congregation became the controlling authority.
The qualified christian minister was told to help those other christians if they were sinning. Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, YOU who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness

but if someone unrepentantly continued down the wrong path then more serious action on the part of the congregation was to be taken. Basically its talking about excommunication. The whole congregation were to stop associating with the wrongdoer. That is how christian justice is delivered. No more beheadings, no more stoning...If the person did not love God and love Gods laws, then those laws were not in his heart and therefore he was not a part of the new covenant so he did not deserve to be in the congregation.

quote:
1Cor 5:11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company withanyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.

1John 9 "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. ...10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him.


purpledawn writes:

Interesting that you didn't mention the two most important commandments supposedly expressed by Jesus to one of the teachers of the law depicted in Mark 12:28-31 and restated in Matthew 22:34-40. Of course those two are part of what you call the Mosaic Law.
This "new" commandment doesn't seem to be any different than the love your neighbor as yourself commandment (Leviticus 19:18) that Jesus said was the second most important commandment taken by the Mishnah

i didnt write every christian law, I started the list off and am hoping others might add to it. But yes, Love is the fundamental law of the Christ. He said all the law hung on the principle of Love which is why he could say that two greatest commands were to Love God and neighbor. Its not surprising to see some similarities between the Mosaic Law and the Law of the Christ.

Jesus explained the Mosaic Law and lived it. But the reason why it was not longer applicable was because it required animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sins and as an approach to God.

Once Jesus died as a sacrifice, then the requirements of the Law were no longer necessary. People could now approach God through their faith in the shed blood of Jesus...they didnt need to offer animals.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by purpledawn, posted 06-15-2009 9:13 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by purpledawn, posted 06-15-2009 1:58 PM Peg has responded
 Message 11 by purpledawn, posted 06-15-2009 2:13 PM Peg has responded

    
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 9 of 392 (512250)
06-15-2009 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Peg
06-15-2009 9:15 AM


Hi, Peg.

Peg writes:

Regarding the 10 commandments, Paul showed that christians were no longer required to observe even them.

Interesting.

The reason I ask is that, at least here in America, most Christians still regard the 10 Commandments as an authoritative code of conduct, and, they in fact raised a huge stink when the Supreme Court decided that the display of the 10 Commandments in government and public buildings was a violation of the "Separation of church and state" ammendment.

-----

Peg writes:

you may not realize it, but I think you are referring to the Great Apostasy that was foretold by the apostles. It was to be a time of darkness for those in the congregations. Perhaps its better for another thread.

I didn't even realize that other Christian churches believed in the Apostasy: I've only ever heard it mentioned by Mormons.

That's interesting: I'd like to hear some of your thoughts about the Apostasy. I'll see if I can start a new thread at the EvC Beta test dBoard about it: hope to see you there!

Edited by Bluejay, : No reason given.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Peg, posted 06-15-2009 9:15 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 10 of 392 (512251)
06-15-2009 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Peg
06-15-2009 9:48 AM


Authority
quote:
The christian congregation became the controlling authority.
Who was given the authority to make laws and when were they given the authority and by whom?

quote:
The qualified christian minister was told to help those other christians if they were sinning. Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, YOU who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness
The modern day Levite. Interesting.

1 Corinthians 5:11 is equivalent to Leviticus 18:8

Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife, that would dishonor your father. Leviticus 18:29 - Everyone who does any of these detestable things--such persons must be cut off from their people.

Again, Paul is merely upholding Jewish law. So even the supposed consequences are from the OT.

In the many Protestant churches I've been to, I have yet to see anyone excommunicated for continuing to misbehave in their life outside the church. Have you actually witnessed this taking place in your country? In the Protestant churches I've been to the preacher doesn't even hold the power to do such a thing without the approval of the Church Board.

So far the rules still come from the Jewish laws and today there really isn't any clear authority on who can cast out members or that any church does consistently.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Peg, posted 06-15-2009 9:48 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Peg, posted 06-16-2009 2:43 AM purpledawn has responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 11 of 392 (512252)
06-15-2009 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Peg
06-15-2009 9:48 AM


Re: John 13:34
quote:
But yes, Love is the fundamental law of the Christ. He said all the law hung on the principle of Love which is why he could say that two greatest commands were to Love God and neighbor. Its not surprising to see some similarities between the Mosaic Law and the Law of the Christ.
Verses please!

Love is not a law.! Please be specific when defining a law. There is no place for metaphor in a law. That's what I mean by no clarity.

Jesus did not say in either of those verses that the law hung on the principle of love. He said (in Matthew 22:40 only) that all the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

quote:
Jesus explained the Mosaic Law and lived it. But the reason why it was not longer applicable was because it required animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sins and as an approach to God.
The Jews today don't follow the sacrificial laws anymore, but they did continue to follow the rest within the constraints of the governing bodies and their oral law grew with them based on their Jewish laws again within the contraints of their governing body.

You have already shown me three Christian laws that are taken from the Jewish laws.

I find it interesting that you didn't address my issues concerning John 13:34 in Message 6 at all, nor did you clarify the meaning of love in the context of John 13:34.

PurpleDawn writes:

1. Jesus is talking to his 11 disciples after Judas left and seems to mean amongst themselves, not necessarily others.
2. The verb "love" as used today carries a more limited meaning ( to hold dear) than the Greek "agapaō" seems to carry. (to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly). Christian view of agape: In the New Testament, agapē is charitable, selfless, altruistic, and unconditional. It is parental love, seen as creating goodness in the world; it is the way God is seen to love humanity, and it is seen as the kind of love that Christians aspire to have for one another. The Christian version is amongst Christians, not necessarily all mankind.
3. We don't really know how Jesus "loved" his disciples. There are no specifics for people to know what they are being judged against.

Please address these concerns.

Edited by purpledawn, : Msg #


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Peg, posted 06-15-2009 9:48 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Peg, posted 06-16-2009 3:05 AM purpledawn has responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 12 of 392 (512254)
06-15-2009 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


Galatians 6:2
Remember we are talking legal laws. Laws that when God sits in judgment Christians will be held accountable to these laws.

2. Galatians 6:2 "Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ"

Again you need to be specific. The law of Christ doesn't really mean anything if there isn't really any legal law. There is law of sin, law of death, law of the spirit, etc. These aren't legal laws.

This verse seems to refer more to a principle as opposed to an enforcable law. Paul is telling those who are spiritually strong to help those who are not. He said should, not must.

Brother, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself or you also my be tempted. Carry each other's burdens and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

If he's referring to the love your neighbor rule again as the law of Christ, then this isn't a new law either.

The problems I see with this being a legal law is that for this to be a fair law, every person would need to be capable of carrying another's burden; even those whose burdens are being carried, otherwise it isn't a fair law. Also we would need a definition of burden. Are we talking physical burdens or just spiritual burdens? What constitutes a spiritual burden? Actual legal laws need to be concise. That's the only way they can be fair and balanced.

Wouldn't this be a law by your standard? I haven't heard this one used as a law before, but given how you're picking them it might as well be.

Galations 6:6
Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.

If it's not, why not?


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peg, posted 06-12-2009 10:04 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Peg, posted 06-16-2009 4:07 AM purpledawn has responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 13 of 392 (512256)
06-15-2009 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


Matthew 28:18
quote:
3. 1John 4:21 "21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also"
_____________
4. 1John 3:23 "Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and be loving one another"

These two fall under the love your neighbor rule.

5. Matt 28:18 "And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying:...Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU

So what is the law? Jesus gave his disciples a job. This has nothing to do with us.

The disciples were supposed to teach people to obey everything Jesus had commanded them. Since the disciples didn't teach Paul, it is hard to say what the disciples taught the Jews or if they did their job.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peg, posted 06-12-2009 10:04 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Peg, posted 06-16-2009 7:59 AM purpledawn has responded

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 41 days)
Posts: 4272
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 14 of 392 (512257)
06-15-2009 3:18 PM


The most important Christian law is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)

That is the spontaneous outworking in the behavior of the believer in view of the fact that Jesus Christ Himself is living within them. The Spirit of life is a Person and not merely a force. He is a spiritual Person who comes to indwell the believer in Christ. In submitting to Him, spontaneously righteousness comes out in the actions and reactions of the believer.

It takes time to learn. And the experience grows deeper and deeper with maturity.

Every life has its own law so to speak. The cat has a mouse catching law. The dog as a barking law. The apple tree has an apple bearing law. The whale has a swimming law. All lives have a law which can be considered the law of that life.

Christ Jesus as the incarnate God in man become the life giving Spirit has His law. That is the law of His divine life. It will act a certain way. It will spontaneously and automiatically live righteously. If we receive Christ into our hearts and allow Him to make His home in our hearts, the law of His life will permeat our human life. We will live Christ out. We will express the Christ who lives in us from within.

So Paul said "For me to live is Christ ..."

Christ spontaneously flows out of him because Paul has brought his whole soul and personality under the influence of this indwelling Christ and the law of the Spirit of life.

Paul gives some practical instructions to slaves, wives, husbands and children in the church life in Ephesus. He preceeds them with an exhortation to be filled in spirit.

In other words these instructions are not to be carried out in the strength of the natural man. The believers are to be filled in thier spirit with the Holy Spirit. The instructions are guidelines showing the path of morality the Spirit of Christ within them will likely take them. Their consciences are to be sensative to it. And they are to cooperate with His inner moving them along these paths of morality.

See Ephesians 5:18 - 6:9

His moral instructions conclude with this word:

"Be empowered in the Lord and in the might of His strength."

You have to get your being in the sphere and the realm of this Person and His strength. This empowering takes place "in the Lord".

The inward indwelling Person of Christ is the enabling, the empowering which supplies and supports the disciples to be able to live such a high standard of morality. It is not a given without cooperation and patience to learn how to apply this Person who comes to live within His believers.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.


  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 15 of 392 (512260)
06-15-2009 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
06-12-2009 10:04 AM


Acts 15:28
7. Acts 15:28 "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication"

This was to the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Abstain from things sacrificed to idols.
Abstain from blood.(Lev. 7:26)
Abstain from things strangled.

Why are these part of Christian law today? Are we accountable before God concerning these? Unless it is Kosher, there is blood in the meats we consume. Besides, I thought the food laws didn't pertain to us. Inconsistency.

Abstain from sexual immorality. Again, clarity. What specifies sexual immorality in Christian law? Then and today.


"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peg, posted 06-12-2009 10:04 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
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