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Author Topic:   Bible Study Cover to Cover
macaroniandcheese 
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Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 1 of 117 (408333)
07-01-2007 10:55 PM


August 1, Genesis.
so i'd like to start an actual bible study and what's simpler than front to back. i say we read a book a month and discussion will start on genesis on august first. i'd like anyone to participate and we can discuss personal issues with the stories, potential facts, and of course good old inaccuracies and stuff. i've never managed to read the whole thing and i'm probably not alone.
you'll need to take notes and cite your comments. also, list your version. i'd suggest that if you're not doing the reading, that you not join the commenting. feel free to start reading late and join in after you've finished the book.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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AdminPhat
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Message 2 of 117 (408360)
07-02-2007 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
07-01-2007 10:55 PM


Re: August 1, Genesis.
Do you have an overall reading plan to go by?
Also, are you saying that everyone needs to start reading genesis now in order to comment by August 1st or do you intend to start the actual reading on August 1st?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-01-2007 10:55 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-02-2007 12:54 PM AdminPhat has not replied
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 07-06-2007 6:59 AM AdminPhat has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 3 of 117 (408414)
07-02-2007 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
07-02-2007 3:08 AM


Re: August 1, Genesis.
start reading now, be prepared to discuss the whole book on august 1, then read exodus for september first likewise and so forth. if people take notes, it should be fine to overlap.

This message is a reply to:
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Message 4 of 117 (408955)
07-06-2007 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
07-02-2007 3:08 AM


Paging AdminPhat...
Brenna has replied.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 117 (408958)
07-06-2007 7:03 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
****************************
Brennakimi writes:
i'd like to start an actual bible study and what's simpler than front to back. i say we read a book a month and discussion will start on genesis on august first. I'd like anyone to participate and we can discuss personal issues with the stories, potential facts, and of course good old inaccuracies and stuff. I've never managed to read the whole thing and I'm probably not alone.
you'll need to take notes and cite your comments. also, list your version. i'd suggest that if you're not doing the reading, that you not join the commenting. feel free to start reading late and join in after you've finished the book.
I guess we best start reading!
Discussion on this topic will begin August 1, 2007.
Edited by AdminPhat, : added quote from Brennakimi

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 6 of 117 (410887)
07-17-2007 5:21 PM


August Bible Study
Although this thread will remain closed until August 1, the originator asked that it be brought back into view.
Here is the OP for review and a reminder that those who wish to participate need to have Genesis read by August 1.
so i'd like to start an actual bible study and what's simpler than front to back. i say we read a book a month and discussion will start on genesis on august first. i'd like anyone to participate and we can discuss personal issues with the stories, potential facts, and of course good old inaccuracies and stuff. i've never managed to read the whole thing and i'm probably not alone.
you'll need to take notes and cite your comments. also, list your version. i'd suggest that if you're not doing the reading, that you not join the commenting. feel free to start reading late and join in after you've finished the book.

Replies to this message:
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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 7 of 117 (413396)
07-30-2007 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AdminPD
07-17-2007 5:21 PM


Re: August Bible Study
Reminder that this thread will open on Wednesday.
The originator asks that only those who have done the reading participate in the thread.
Please respect those wishes.
Discussion of Genesis will begin August 1.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2322 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 8 of 117 (413691)
07-31-2007 11:13 PM


Now Open for Discussion
Opening at Bren's request.

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 9 of 117 (413758)
08-01-2007 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
07-01-2007 10:55 PM


Re: August 1, Genesis.
I have decided to use the New American Standard Bible. My decision was based on a bit of internet research which declares it very precisely accurate. I usually use a NKJV, but I’ve decided to thumb my nose at anything resembling the KJV out of direct defiance towards Authorized Version-ers. If you’re not reading the original languages, you’ve got no leg up on anyone. And all these sites about what’s been removed or what’s been changed or what’s been added who don’t know how to read the original languages are on crack.
Genesis notes
1:1 God is an assumed concept and does not have to be explained.
Gen 1:7
God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
Gen 1:8
God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
This clearly establishes the solid heaven in the Hebrew cosmology.
Gen 1:9
Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
There is one ocean? Maybe the Mediterranean?
Gen 1:14
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
God creates the universe of planets within the solid sphere of heaven. Perhaps beyond the universe, there is water. But to suggest that means that when the flood occurred, that all of the universe was rained on. I don’t think this can be justified.
I think the imprecision of creation in Genesis 1 demonstrates a just-so story. It doesn’t discuss the creation of mushrooms or non-seeding plants or probably flightless birds. It’s a vague story. Do the days of the week mirror the days in this story? Otherwise, I see no brilliant creation story. I’d expect greater precision and bragging from something that’s supposed to show the power of God.
Genesis 2
Gen 2:5
Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
But man was created in 1:26?! This can only be a new story. Whether 2:4 belongs with 1 or 2, I don’t know. This new story has the Earth as a given in addition to God.
Then God creates a man and puts him in a garden which he plants. Planting and calling into being are very different. Also, this man is formed, while the man in Genesis 1 is created. This God is much more tactile and involved. He’s very intimate.
Gen 2:10
Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers.
Gen 2:11
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold.
Gen 2:12
The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there.
Gen 2:13
The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.
Gen 2:14
The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
This tells us where the garden is. This is precise information of the variety I was missing in the last story, even if it is flawed.
I don’t know about establish scholarship, but I see one possibility which kind of contradicts everything I’ve read on the question of where Eden might have been.
http://www.welt-atlas.de/datenbank/karten/karte-0-9014.gif
Up in Turkey near that place called Yerevan, three rivers come awfully close together. I think there might be a fourth river.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/map_middle_east.JPG
Also, there are several rivers that originate around Ararat. I think it’s a strong option to place Eden up near the Black Sea, also to take advantage of the Black Sea flooding. These must be old stories transplanted from that area.
Gen 2:15
Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
Gen 2:16
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Gen 2:17
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
God gives man a home and a covenant which gives the conditions for living in that home. This is the role of a close superior, again suggesting that intimacy of one actively involved in “formation”.
Gen 2:18
Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."
Gen 2:19
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought {them} to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
Gen 2:20
The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.
God made animals only so that the man could find a helper. He didn’t see one he liked. Also, God doesn’t seem to have the power to name things. This seems to be man’s specific purpose and special ability. Common to many middle-eastern mythologies, man’s power is to name, and when man can name a spirit, he can control it. I wonder if this naming of the animals demonstrates the thought of man being over the animals.
Gen 2:21
So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place.
Gen 2:22
The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23
The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
This again demonstrates the intimacy of a hands-on creator . the one who will shortly walk with his creation. It also demonstrates the intrinsically intimate nature of men and women. They are connected, alike, and equally fragile. The word rib here does in fact mean one specific variety of chest bone and is used as such in other places in the OT.
Gen 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
This shows the nature of this story as another just-so story. Men and women get married because they are intimately connected. It also demonstrates a matrilocal culture, as it doesn’t discuss a woman leaving her family.
Gen 2:25
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.
This particularly separates the nature of these people from us.
Genesis 3
Gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
1) serpent, snake
a) serpent
b) image (of serpent)
c) fleeing serpent (mythological)
Gen 49:17
Dan 01835 shall be a serpent 05175 by the way 01870, an adder 08207 in the path 0734, that biteth 05391 the horse 05483 heels 06119, so that his rider 07392 shall fall 05307 backward 0268.
This verse uses this word for serpent and then mirrors it with adder. An adder is a common venomous snake. There is no reason to assume this really means anything but a regular old snake.
Gen 3:2
The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3
but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
Gen 3:4
The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
Gen 3:5
"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Gen 3:6
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make {one} wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
Gen 3:7
Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
The woman here demonstrates that she is not a party to the covenant which condition’s the man’s residence in the garden as she doesn’t know the wording of it. Also, her eating does not reveal anything. It is the man’s covenant to keep or break. This demonstrates a particular idea of the ability of women to make contracts, or at least to be party to this one.
Also note that the breasts were not covered in this sudden nudity.
Gen 3:8
They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
Note the sudden use of LORD. Also, note that it is suddenly man’s own feelings of guilt which separate him from God.
Gen 3:11
And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
God knows that the tree has other side effects that he did not choose to share previously. Why didn’t he tell Adam everything?
Gen 3:12
The man said, "The woman whom You gave {to be} with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate."
Adam blames God for giving him the woman.
Gen 3:13
Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
The woman blames the serpent. However, both own their action of eating.
Gen 3:14
The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;
Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
This story tells us why snakes don’t have legs, and why we think they’re nasty blighters. Probably also tells us why they’re venomous.
Gen 3:16
To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
Childbirth was not painless before, unlike some claim. It’s just nastier still now. This defines the source of patriarchy, or is an excuse for it. But, if patriarchy is a product of the fall, should it not be the right goal to remove it? Shouldn’t the state of grace be one of harmony and not rule?
Gen 3:17
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18
"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;
Gen 3:19
By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
Agriculture is our punishment.
Gen 3:20
Now the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all {the} living.
Remember what I said about naming being the act of controlling?
Gen 3:21
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
1. God kills an animal and doesn’t use all of it.
2. God shows mercy by providing for them in their need.
Gen 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
Gen 3:23
therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
God doesn’t state death as a product of the fall. It is conspicuously missing.
It may be that God was going to kill them immediately after they ate, but changed his mind because he got to like them so well.
Gen 3:24
So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
This is awfully fantastic. It’s rather unlikely that anyone could find such a place. Also, note that it doesn’t say cherubim with flaming swords. This may be a reference to some mythological “sword that turns every direction” which is lost to the pages of history. I’d love to have that for my druid on Diablo 2.
Genesis 4
Gen 4:5
but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.
Is this because tilling the ground is our punishment? Did the curse on the ground make the fruit unworthy? And why does God later accept wheat offerings?
Gen 4:6
Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7
"If you do well, will not {your countenance} be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."
This is important, but I don’t know what to say about it.
Gen 4:17
Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son.
I know this is old hat, but who is Cain’s wife?
Gen 4:20
Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and {have} livestock.
Gen 4:21
His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe.
Gen 4:22
As for Zillah, she also gave birth to Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron; and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
Lamech’s children bring trades into the world. Also, why is Tubal-cain’s siter mentioned?
Gen 4:25
Adam had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, {she said,} "God has appointed me another offspring in place of Abel, for Cain killed him."
There are at least 40 years now between Abel and Seth? Or is the tale told out of order?
Gen 4:26
To Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then {men} began to call upon the name of the LORD.
I’m sure this is important, too.
Genesis 5
Gen 5:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.
Gen 5:2
He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.
Here and before in 4, God is “he” and not “us” suddenly.
I’d like to discuss why the names Enoch, Methuselah, and Lamech are repeated in Seth’s line from Cain’s. I’m sure they may have been popular names, but you’d think people could be more creative. But the precise pattern is echoed as well, in the right order. A couple are missing from the top, but that’s hardly important. I wonder if these were first just the chiefs after Adam.
Genesis 6
Gen 6:6
The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
God expresses regret.
Gen 6:5
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6
The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
Gen 6:7
The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them."
Gen 6:8
But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:9
These are {the records of} the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
Gen 6:10
Noah became the father of three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Gen 6:11
Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12
God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13
Then God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.
This is jumbled and repeats a few times. I think it’s clearly compiled.
Gen 6:19
"And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every {kind} into the ark, to keep {them} alive with you; they shall be male and female.
Gen 6:20
"Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every {kind} will come to you to keep {them} alive.
Gen 7:2
"You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female;
Gen 7:3
also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
Again it repeats and this time it changes.
Genesis 7 & 8
I did add up the days of the flood before, and it was like 5 years or something. But it seems to change and retell.
Gen 8:21
The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
Gen 8:22
"While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease."
God says he will never again destroy all life.
Genesis 9
Gen 9:11
"I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth."
God adds the qualifier of “by flood”.
Gen 9:22
Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside.
Gen 9:23
But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, so that they did not see their father's nakedness.
Gen 9:24
When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him.
Gen 9:25
So he said, "Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers."
Gives an excuse for the destruction of Cannan. Dehumanization and mythology building to excuse genocide. Classic.
Genesis 10
Gen 10:32
These are the families of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, by their nations; and out of these the nations were separated on the earth after the flood.
Disparate language is clearly not created at the Tower of Babel if these men can be separated now by language. It must be an inserted tale.
Genesis 11
Gen 11:1
Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.
Um. You just said it didn’t.
Gen 11:31
Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife; and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans in order to enter the land of Canaan; and they went as far as Haran, and settled there.
If Eden was near the head of either the Tigris or Euphrates, how did these people get to Ur, if it is in the center of Iraq? I mean. It’s not that much of a walk, but to have been there long enough to want to leave? Also, why is the land they settle in named after Lot’s father?
Genesis 12
Gen 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
Gen 12:2
And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
Gen 12:3
And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
And so begins the oldest ongoing international conflict in the world.
Gen 12:10
Now there was a famine in the land; so Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there, for the famine was severe in the land.
Abram goes to Egypt. Later, his grandson will follow.
Gen 12:11
It came about when he came near to Egypt, that he said to Sarai his wife, "See now, I know that you are a beautiful woman;
Gen 12:12
and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'This is his wife'; and they will kill me, but they will let you live.
Gen 12:13
"Please say that you are my sister so that it may go well with me because of you, and that I may live on account of you."
Someone else does this. I think it’s a repeated myth.
Gen 15:2
Abram said, "O Lord GOD, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?"
Damascus is a bit of a walk. In fact it’s about 150-200 miles. Do you really thing that a tribal nomad’s closest relative lives 200 miles away? Could it be possible that a 40b.c. merchant’s relative would live 200 miles away and it didn’t’ occur to them to write appropriately for a nomad living a few thousand years earlier?
Gen 15:12
Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, terror {and} great darkness fell upon him.
Gen 15:13
{God} said to Abram, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years.
Gen 15:14
"But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with many possessions.
Gen 15:15
"As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age.
Gen 15:16
"Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete."
Even the religiously accepted idea of authorship makes this vision potentially suspect. “Oh look! God said we’d be in Egypt!”
Gen 15:18
On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:
That’s a bit bigger than modern Israel. I wonder if they might be interested in a tiny acquisition .
Gen 15:19
the Kenite and the Kenizzite and the Kadmonite
Gen 15:20
and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Rephaim
Gen 15:21
and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Girgashite and the Jebusite."
A list of those marked for death.
Genesis 16
Gen 16:10
Moreover, the angel of the LORD said to her, "I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count."
Gen 16:11
The angel of the LORD said to her further, "Behold, you are with child, And you will bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction.
Gen 16:12
"He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand {will be} against everyone, And everyone's hand {will be} against him; And he will live to the east of all his brothers."
More excuses for hatred. “Oh look. God said the Muslims would be wild, so we have no reason to try to be diplomatic. They’re lesser than we are.”
Gen 17:8
"I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
Everlasting possession, huh?
Gen 19:9
But they said, "Stand aside." Furthermore, they said, "This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them." So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
The people are mistreating a new resident and his guests. I think the suggestion of sex really is just symbolic of the degree of their mistreatment.
Gen 19:36
Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father.
Gen 19:37
The firstborn bore a son, and called his name Moab; he is the father of the Moabites to this day.
Gen 19:38
As for the younger, she also bore a son, and called his name Ben-ammi; he is the father of the sons of Ammon to this day.
Still more political aspersions. “Those people are all inbred perverts and we have a right to annihilate them.”
Gen 20:1
Now Abraham journeyed from there toward the land of the Negev, and settled between Kadesh and Shur; then he sojourned in Gerar.
Gen 20:2
Abraham said of Sarah his wife, "She is my sister." So Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah.
Oh look, it’s that same story again. I think they got confused as to when he did that. Do you think Abraham was really enough of an asshole to screw over two kings with the same “she’s my sister” bullshit? Maybe he had a kink .
Gen 22:14
Abraham called the name of that place The LORD Will Provide, as it is said to this day, "In the mount of the LORD it will be provided."
Did you notice that that LORD went away? It’s back.
This is an interesting story. I don’t know what else to say. God provides the gift and the sacrifice to be made for the gift. It is all the work of God. If that is the case, then where is it that suddenly humans are responsible for providing the sacrifice? I think this again touches on that it’s man who gets between himself and God.
Gen 22:16
and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son,
Trust wholly and you will be rewarded. It’s not about working. It’s not about getting it right. It’s not about screwing up. It’s about knowing that everything that happens is in the hands of God.
Gen 23:15
"My lord, listen to me; a piece of land worth four hundred shekels of silver, what is that between me and you? So bury your dead."
Gen 23:16
Abraham listened to Ephron; and Abraham weighed out for Ephron the silver which he had named in the hearing of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, commercial standard.
Abraham buys land (fuck spinnin’ rims).
Gen 24:16
The girl was very beautiful, a virgin, and no man had had relations with her; and she went down to the spring and filled her jar and came up.
She was a virgin and no man had had relations with her! Wow! Double virgin! Bet she was tiiiight!
Seriously though. Maybe virgin doesn’t mean what we think it means.
Also, how did he know from looking at her? Did he examine her?
Gen 26:7
When the men of the place asked about his wife, he said, "She is my sister," for he was afraid to say, "my wife," {thinking,} "the men of the place might kill me on account of Rebekah, for she is beautiful."
Oh look. It’s that story again. How many famines and men with kinks for their sisters will there be in this book? Oh and look, it’s the same king. I really think someone’s having fun with me.
Gen 29:35
And she conceived again and bore a son and said, "This time I will praise the LORD." Therefore she named him Judah. Then she stopped bearing.
Judah is born. Funny that his birth and his brother’s is in so much squabbling and competition and the same fills the brothers and their tribes.
Gen 32:24
Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.
Gen 32:25
When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26
Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
Gen 32:27
So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."
Gen 32:28
He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed."
Gen 32:29
Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30
So Jacob named the place Peniel, for {he said,} "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
Gen 32:31
Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh.
Gen 32:32
Therefore, to this day the sons of Israel do not eat the sinew of the hip which is on the socket of the thigh, because he touched the socket of Jacob's thigh in the sinew of the hip.
You remember what I said about names? Also notice that God suddenly has a body and he doesn’t say LORD.
Gen 33:18
Now Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, when he came from Paddan-aram, and camped before the city.
Gen 33:19
He bought the piece of land where he had pitched his tent from the hand of the sons of Hamor, Shechem's father, for one hundred pieces of money.
Gen 33:20
Then he erected there an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel.
Jacob (Israel) buys land.
Genesis 34
For one woman’s honor come the first atrocities committed by the sons of Israel.
Gen 35:9
Then God appeared to Jacob again when he came from Paddan-aram, and He blessed him.
Gen 35:10
God said to him, "Your name is Jacob; You shall no longer be called Jacob, But Israel shall be your name." Thus He called him Israel.
God renames Jacob again.
Gen 36:1
Now these are {the records of} the generations of Esau (that is, Edom).
Edomites. I think they kill them later too. Fear not! We’ll get there. Jacob steals his brother’s birthright and blessing and then his children make up an excuse to annihilate them.
36:1-7 State the names of Esau’s sons. 36:8-14 repeat them in a different order. Then they talk about chiefs, as though it’s a people and not a family while repeating the sons once more. I think this is the more accurate.
Gen 37:3
Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons, because he was the son of his old age; and he made him a varicolored tunic.
Now, I think Israel loved Joseph (and Benjamin) because Rachel was their mother.
Gen 37:36
Meanwhile, the Midianites sold him in Egypt to Potiphar, Pharaoh's officer, the captain of the bodyguard.
I wonder what happens to the Midianites later.
Gen 38:9
Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother.
Gen 38:10
But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also.
Cause he wouldn’t give his brother an heir.
Gen 38:21
He asked the men of her place, saying, "Where is the temple prostitute who was by the road at Enaim?" But they said, "There has been no temple prostitute here."
I wonder what temple.
Gen 41:57
{The people of} all the earth came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe in all the earth.
Of all the earth? I wonder why fundies don’t jump on this one. I really think all the earth might mean something we don’t know. Since Mediterranean means center of the earth and it most certainly is not. Maybe “the earth” really means “the general region which is in close proximity to Egypt.”
Gen 45:16
Now when the news was heard in Pharaoh's house that Joseph's brothers had come, it pleased Pharaoh and his servants.
Gen 45:17
Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Say to your brothers, 'Do this: load your beasts and go to the land of Canaan,
Gen 45:18
and take your father and your households and come to me, and I will give you the best of the land of Egypt and you will eat the fat of the land.'
Joseph moves his family to Egypt.
Gen 46:33
"When Pharaoh calls you and says, 'What is your occupation?'
Gen 46:34
you shall say, 'Your servants have been keepers of livestock from our youth even until now, both we and our fathers,' that you may live in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is loathsome to the Egyptians."
Gen 47:4
They said to Pharaoh, "We have come to sojourn in the land, for there is no pasture for your servants' flocks, for the famine is severe in the land of Canaan. Now, therefore, please let your servants live in the land of Goshen."
Gen 47:5
Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Your father and your brothers have come to you.
Gen 47:6
"The land of Egypt is at your disposal; settle your father and your brothers in the best of the land, let them live in the land of Goshen; and if you know any capable men among them, then put them in charge of my livestock."
They actually move to Goshen, which is allegedly near the modern city Faqus.
I’m really not gonna discuss this much. I’ve always hated the story of Joseph, and Joseph himself. I think he’s a jerk.
Gen 49:8 "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; Your father's sons shall bow down to you. Gen 49:9 "Judah is a lion's whelp; From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He couches, he lies down as a lion, And as a lion, who dares rouse him up? Gen 49:10 "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes, And to him {shall be} the obedience of the peoples. Gen 49:11 "He ties {his} foal to the vine, And his donkey's colt to the choice vine; He washes his garments in wine, And his robes in the blood of grapes. Gen 49:12 "His eyes are dull from wine, And his teeth white from milk.
Shiloh
1) he whose it is, that which belongs to him, tranquillity
a) meaning uncertain
Gen 49:17 "Dan shall be a serpent in the way, A horned snake in the path, That bites the horse's heels, So that his rider falls backward.
There, that’s that serpent from Genesis 1 again.
Gen 49:29 Then he charged them and said to them, "I am about to be gathered to my people; bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, Gen 49:30 in the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought along with the field from Ephron the Hittite for a burial site. Gen 49:31 "There they buried Abraham and his wife Sarah, there they buried Isaac and his wife Rebekah, and there I buried Leah-- Gen 49:32 the field and the cave that is in it, purchased from the sons of Heth."
eeeenteresting.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 08-03-2007 2:45 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
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 Message 38 by Bailey, posted 08-14-2007 8:13 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 10 of 117 (413818)
08-01-2007 2:10 PM


oh come on, it only took me like 6 hours to read the stupid think and between stuff at work.

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-01-2007 2:49 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 20 by DorfMan, posted 08-02-2007 4:12 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 117 (413836)
08-01-2007 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by macaroniandcheese
08-01-2007 2:10 PM


Six Days Did He Read, and on the 7th He rested
If all of our replies are as long as your original post, this thing will be as long as War and Peace! Now...do you want me to continue where you left off, or do you want my 2 cents worth on the same batch of scriptures you read?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-01-2007 2:10 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-01-2007 2:55 PM Phat has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 12 of 117 (413837)
08-01-2007 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
08-01-2007 2:49 PM


Re: Six Days Did He Read, and on the 7th He rested
Now...do you want me to continue where you left off, or do you want my 2 cents worth on the same batch of scriptures you read?
i don't know what you mean. that's all there is of genesis (unless your bible is different from mine) and i read the whole book. you can either list the notes you took (you know, so i can ask you about your thoughts) or you can just ask me about mine and we can build a discussion from there. i just didn't see a reason to chop up my notes. you may have less, you may have more. people can choose to read them or not.
it seems to me that it's better for everyone to post their own notes, especially since you have very different opinions than i and i left out whole sections from mine.
but, questions regarding other peoples' interpretations or whatever should be restricted in scope.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-01-2007 2:49 PM Phat has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 13 of 117 (414026)
08-02-2007 12:23 PM


apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
this doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but i fully intend to keep it up. so, while i'm sure this will fall off the front page in a day or two, i'll see you back on september 1 for exodus.

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Modulous, posted 08-02-2007 1:28 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 08-02-2007 3:14 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 14 of 117 (414039)
08-02-2007 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by macaroniandcheese
08-02-2007 12:23 PM


Re: apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
i'll see you back on september 1 for exodus.
I'm just wondering if you had realized you will be still reading and discussing this thing in 2013?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-02-2007 12:23 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 15 of 117 (414040)
08-02-2007 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Modulous
08-02-2007 1:28 PM


Re: apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
yeah, probably. but a few of the books are real short and can be packed into a single month. if you'd like to participate and are willing to do a chapter a week, i'm willing to move it up.

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