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Author Topic:   Biblical Coherency
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3810 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 1 of 8 (416992)
08-18-2007 11:20 PM


In another thread Rob writes

"I invite you to put the God of the bible on trial and find a contradiction..."

In the Bible there are numerous technical mistakes, copyist errors, logical contradictions, numerical inconsistencies, redactions, philosophical incoherencies, etc.

Rob expressed willingness to discuss this issue further and demonstrate that these are realy just "paradoxes".

For the sake of clarity and focus I would like to discuss a single issue in this topic.



How is the principle NT ethic of loving your neighbor and further even loving and praying for your enemies and overcoming evil with good reconcilable or coherent with the OT instructive stories which allegedly involve direct commands of God which go counter to the NT ethic?


Some miscellaneous random specifics to illustrate the point:

Direct commanded by Moses God's prophet...

Exodus 32 writes:

Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.

Heads on pikes displayed for the Lord ... yikes!

Numbers 25 writes:

And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'

Keep the virgins for yourselves (not the kind of love Jesus was implying)

Numbers 31 writes:

Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Slavery or Death and rape (For God's sake keep the plunder which specifically includes women)

Deuteronomy 20 writes:

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Little children are not be spared.. no mercy no pity let alone love.

Ezekiel 9:5-7 writes:

Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Curses indeed...

Jeremiah 48 writes:

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

And just to further underscore this point there are a few places where the Hebrew leaders accorded a measure of mercy to their enemies only to incite outrage by God and we are informed that this God will destroy those who show mercy to their enemies. For example Saul spares the life of Agag and Samuel curses Saul

1 Samuel 15 writes:

But Saul and the people spared Agag...The word of the Lord came to Samuel: 'I repent that I have made Saul king; for he has turned back from following me, and has not performed my commandments...

Samuel informs Saul that God had commanded the genocide

1 Samuel 15 writes:

And the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go, utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed...Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has rejected you from being king.

Now Samuel being a Holy Hit Man shows Saul just what God had in mind

1 Samuel 15 writes:

Then Samuel said, 'Bring here to me Agag the king of the Amalekites...And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal

There are other instances where God's alleged orders for complete Genocide was not carried out, invoking God wrath.

If God is outraged over acts of mercy extended to the enemies of his people, just how does this fit with God's other command of loving your enemies.

Note I don't want a Great Debate as I don't have the time and appreciate the input of others and am not here to win or show someone up but to learn and mix thought with thought


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Rob, posted 08-19-2007 2:05 AM iceage has not yet responded

AdminNem
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 8 (417003)
08-19-2007 12:39 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
Replies to this message:
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Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3744 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 3 of 8 (417028)
08-19-2007 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNem
08-19-2007 12:39 AM


Hi NJ... Iceage left out something important in his request... www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=712&m=82#83 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=712&m=82#83">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=712&m=82#83

I specifically agreed to a great debate between Iceage and myself only. I can't adress an issue such as this with the mob ready to question every step. It's Iceage and I so that we can stay on the points, or no deal...

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNem, posted 08-19-2007 12:39 AM AdminNem has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by iceage, posted 08-19-2007 2:09 AM Rob has responded
 Message 7 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-19-2007 8:54 AM Rob has not yet responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3744 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 4 of 8 (417033)
08-19-2007 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
08-18-2007 11:20 PM


www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=31&t=91&m=3#3 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=31&t=91&m=3#3">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=31&t=91&m=3#3
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by iceage, posted 08-18-2007 11:20 PM iceage has not yet responded

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3810 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 5 of 8 (417034)
08-19-2007 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Rob
08-19-2007 2:01 AM


Whose to say there won't be a mob ready to support you? I would really like to hear other Christian's thoughts on this - for example folks like Ana, Phat, NJ, PDawn, pbee and Buzz.

Nevertheless, fine i guess, but not my preference.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Rob, posted 08-19-2007 2:01 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Rob, posted 08-19-2007 2:11 AM iceage has not yet responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3744 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 6 of 8 (417038)
08-19-2007 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by iceage
08-19-2007 2:09 AM


Iceage:
Nevertheless, fine i guess, but not my preference.

Very well then...

Moderator, do you have the technology to translate this into a smaller arena?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by iceage, posted 08-19-2007 2:09 AM iceage has not yet responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1823 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 7 of 8 (417058)
08-19-2007 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Rob
08-19-2007 2:01 AM


how exactly do you put anyone on trial without questioning every step?

wimp.

Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Rob, posted 08-19-2007 2:01 AM Rob has not yet responded

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 8 of 8 (417061)
08-19-2007 8:58 AM


Thread copied to the Biblical Coherency thread in the The Great Debate forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
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