Rapture (pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib) ?

There appears to be a controversy if the rapture is pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib.Christians that take the bible literally believe when the last trump of God sounds is when the rapture will occur.The question too some is that the rapture will occur after the last angelic trumpet is blown in the book of revelation.If one reads the bible from a literal perspective the church will be raptured at the last trump of God not the last angelic trump.When will the rapture occur (is the controversy) Christians at the very least believe that rapture will be before the great bowls of wrath.Some believe the bowls of wrath is not a part of the tribulation. These are the post trib people.Others who include the bowls of wrath as a part of the tribulation and instead of a post trip believe in a mid-trib rapture.Others still who take the saints overcome by the beast as those left behind believe in the pre-trib rapture meaning those left behind will partake in the angelic trumpets not the raptured church.When God blows the trumpet the church will be gone and a warning to those left behind.The question is rapture to be pre-trib and is the saints mentioned in (kjv revelation 13:7) those left behind that choose Christ yet were overcome by the dragons power for those 42 months ? (kjv rev 13:5)The book of revelation interestingly puts these saints that overcome the dragon by death are too part of the first resurrection and not subject to the power of the second death. (kjv rev 20:5-6.)The bible mention the Lord God himself blowing the trumpet. Another supportive of the Lord God blowing his trumpet is mentioned in the book of Zechariah chapter 9:14. kjv================================================================Its about by using scripture to support pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rature. So in essense its a bit of a bible study unfortunately there is too many scoffers that are into bible study like jar that mocks biblical inerrancy, faith and belief so instead of bible study I'm leaning faith and belief.I believe its good as is as christians can fill in the missing verses about the trump of God, angelic trumpets, mark of the beast, the anti-christ, second death, why the second resurrection is not the rapture and why the martyred saints are a part of the first resurrection even though not part of the rapture.Also they can discuss why the raptured church and the martyred saints are both a part of the first resurrection and why the second death has no power over them and the thousand year ruling and reigning with Christ. And discuss why those not a part of the first resurrection will also be resurrected in the second resurrection and what and when is the second resurrection and why after the thousand year reign of Christ.

I definitely believe in the Pan Trib School.That is if you trust in Jesus and walk with God everything will pan out alright.

"Trump = trumpet If you go to the text in Revelation 10 when the trumpet is about to sound and then to chapter 11 after the 7th trumpet sounds you read the following:1. Chapter 10: "Then is finished the mystery of God according to the good tidings as which he declared to his servants the prophets.At this point, go to 1 Corinthians 15:51,52 where we read similar terms refering to the last (logically the 7th trumpet of Revelation as there are no other NT trumpets in sequence). 2. Chapter 11 (Revelation): "And the 7th angel sounded." (trumpet) The following is what "they" said. (the "they" is not specified)a. v 15: The kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ (Christ refering to Jesus in NT).
b. v 18: The nations are wrathful (implicating terror and war) and the time of the wrath of God (as prophesied in OT and NT) has come.
c. v 18: The time of the dead to be judged.
d. v 18: The time of the rewarding of the prophets and saints by God.
e. v 18: The time of destroying them who are destroying the earth.
f. v 19: The temple of God is opened in heaven.
g. v 19: Finally thunders, lightnings earthquake and great hail. (likely referring to the bowls of wrath specified in Revelation 161. We learn from this that the rapture (transfer of saints both dead and alive from earth to Heaven) happens at the sound of the last (7th trumpet of Revelation)2. We learn also that at this time is when the wrath time (7 bowls of God's wrath in Rev 16 begins on earth.Now if you go to the Olivet Discourse prophecy of Jesus in Matthew and Mark you find another sequence of events which corroborates the above stating that all this happens after the tribulation.See Mark 13:24-28 where the sequense is as follows:
1. Tribulation/persecution of Christians (imo now underway in much of the world, especially the Islamic nations.
2. Darkening of sun and moon, i.e likely stormy, cloudy and pollution
3. Signs in the atmosphere implied.
4. Angels gather elect of Jesus (true Christians) from extremity of earth an carry them up to the extremity of heaven. (Likely God's heavenly abode.)

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

The Rapture is funny, something to laugh about.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm Pre-Trib, but I can't really get in to it right now. I'll expand on this a little later.

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

If they have oil for their lamp then when the door opens (the rapture) then it should pan out alright. kjv psalm 91:1-3.It says: Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. kjv Matthew 25:10 & kjv Matthew 25:13

Revelation 6:12-13 right after the sixth seal is opened. It sounds identical to Mark 13:24-28 the part about the sun became black and the moon as blood and the stars of heaven fell to the earth.The sixth seal is before the angelic trumpets which is what makes me think its the last trump of God not the last angelic trumpet.It says after the sixth seal was opened that the day of his wrath is come. However if this is true then the angelic trumpets have not yet sounded are a part of the wrath of God. kjv Revelation 6:17.kjv rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

Agreed.If you will notice, that is why I added "and walk with God" The case of Enoch being instructive.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

1. You're basing your POV on an obscure verse related to no sequence of events, all the while sweeping under the proverbial rug all of the sequence by corroborating texts. This is the MO of pretribulationists, to isolate texts to substantiate the false POV. By this tactict one can skew the texts to whatever POV that suits their preconceived doctrines.2. Pretribulationists like to try and distinguish "trump" from "trumpet" when in fact they are one and the same.3. The trumpets are the events of the 7th seal. The bowls of wrath include the events of and subsequent to the 7th trumpet. The six seals are like a table of contents or preface to the 7 trumpets. Notice that the sixth seal depicts some of the events of the last bowls of wrath including the worldwide earthquake and the devastation from the hail, etc.4. The darkening of the sun and moon, prophesied in some of the OT prophecies such as Joel, Isaiah as well as in the NT by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse etc is the significant sign relative to the seals, trumpets, rapture, etc. The Joel reference to this is also cited/verified in Acts 2:20. If you tie this into Jesus's Olivet Discourse prophecy in Mark 13:24 you find that this darkening preceeds the wrath time of the day of the Lord and is subsequent to the tribulation which corrorborates the sequence of events relative to the scriptural POV which I have outlined.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

I bid no rapture, no trib, no trump.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htmkjv Zechariah 9:14 mentions the Lord blowing the trumpet. kjv 1 Cor 15:52 says at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.1 Th 4:16 It says the Lord himself shall desend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together it them in the clouds to meeet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. In the sixth seal it says the mountains and islands were moved out of their place. In the bowls of wrath its said the islands fled away and the mountains were no more to be found.kjv revelation 7:1 talks of the angels holding the 4 winds the whole chapter 7 seems to be in agreement with kjv mark 13:27Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

doubledTTFN,WK

I understand the doctrine of the Rapture to only date back to the 19th century. It's a rather recent phenomenon like dispensationalism (the overriding fundamentalist approach to interpreting the Bible). In other words, they're fads.Myself, I'm strictly amillennialist.

Temporal trib + eternal rapture = no 7th trumpet wrath.7th trumpet wrath = posible trib and no rapture.The choice is up to you but sorry, there's no none of all for anyone regardless of how many double or 2nd the notion. Almighty God calls the shots.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

There always seems to be this assumption that Christ must take up the whole church at one time - either pre, or mid, or post tribulation.The underlining assumption of many that there cannot be more than one rapture seems to usually be the ground work from which different theories are presented.In a field of crops all the crops do not ripen at the same time. There are the early ripened fruit followed usually by the majority harvest. Towards the end of the season the late ripened fruit matures.Thus the farmer cannot force all of the crop to be ready at the same day, though that would be most convenient.If this is the case then it is vain to argue pre-tribulation against post tribulation rapture because because not all the body of Christ's people have to be raptured on the same day.- Selective Rapture makes the most sense given careful conderation to all the Scriptures involved.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.