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Author Topic:   Beneficial Mutations
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 1 of 33 (183842)
02-07-2005 11:58 PM


daaaabear in a nother thread made this statement:
..too bad mutations are never beneficial to any species whatsoever.
This thread is an opportunity for him to back that statment up.
When his evidence as been supplied (and let's hold it till then please) we can give him evidence of such beneficial mutations.

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 33 (183847)
02-08-2005 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-07-2005 11:58 PM


Heck - I've been drinking, I'll promote the topic.
Ad(Hick)minnemooseus

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 33 (183850)
02-08-2005 12:08 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
daaaaaBEAR
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 33 (184175)
02-09-2005 5:43 PM


See, the problem is Nosy that I have no useful scientific credit to actually argue about the science of mutations, from anything i've heard mutations are an extra leg, siamese twins, abnormal growths, and in no way benefit a species.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 02-09-2005 5:52 PM daaaaaBEAR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 33 (184177)
02-09-2005 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 5:43 PM


May I say that is a great response.
Now, before anyone gives you any examples, can I ask you to research using google for one evening looking for examples of beneficial mutaions?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 5:43 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 33 (184180)
02-09-2005 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 5:43 PM


May I suggest you read through this thread about favorable mutation first before going on?

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daaaaaBEAR
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 33 (184182)
02-09-2005 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
02-09-2005 5:47 PM


I do see the theories of beneficial mutation in bacteria but what about larger species? Is there any examples of mammals or more complex organisms that mutate to benefit a generation?
Bacteria and other simple organisms might mutate but it seems like there would be a missing link if one is to look at transitional species between more complex animals.

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 Message 5 by jar, posted 02-09-2005 5:47 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 02-09-2005 6:15 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 33 (184186)
02-09-2005 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 6:02 PM


Spend some more time looking. Start with google +beneficial +mutation and see what you get.
What you learn on your own is far more appreciated than what is handed to you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 6:02 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
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daaaaaBEAR
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 33 (184206)
02-09-2005 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
02-09-2005 6:15 PM


I looked at a good web site but all the evidence was that of adaptations of simple organisms of temperature, growth in dark, genetic divergence, yeast adaptation, improved fitness of random mutations in certain types of bacteria, etc..
Shouldn't there be some modern examples needed of some kind of mutation that would lead to evidence in transitional species?

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 Message 8 by jar, posted 02-09-2005 6:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 02-09-2005 7:36 PM daaaaaBEAR has not replied
 Message 12 by pink sasquatch, posted 02-09-2005 7:40 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 02-09-2005 8:50 PM daaaaaBEAR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 33 (184214)
02-09-2005 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 7:17 PM


Look further. Find it on your own.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 33 (184217)
02-09-2005 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 7:17 PM


Shouldn't there be some modern examples needed of some kind of mutation that would lead to evidence in transitional species?
Mutations don't produce transitional species. Mutations produce variation within the individuals of a species. Of course, because all species are in constant change, all species are transitional species.

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 12 of 33 (184219)
02-09-2005 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 7:17 PM


follow jar's suggestion, and you shall find...
I looked at a good web site but all the evidence was that of adaptations of simple organisms...
If you do as jar suggests, and put "beneficial mutations" into Google, the very first hit is "Examples of Beneficial Mutations in Humans".
(Unless maybe you consider humans to be "simple organisms"...)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 7:17 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 8:00 PM pink sasquatch has replied

  
daaaaaBEAR
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 33 (184226)
02-09-2005 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by pink sasquatch
02-09-2005 7:40 PM


Re: follow jar's suggestion, and you shall find...
it it was in english, then i could read it. I'm not a scientist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by pink sasquatch, posted 02-09-2005 7:40 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by pink sasquatch, posted 02-09-2005 8:10 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 14 of 33 (184230)
02-09-2005 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 8:00 PM


Re: follow jar's suggestion, and you shall find...
it it was in english, then i could read it. I'm not a scientist.
Perhaps, but these are real sources, and not propaganda from a website pushing one view or another.
The initial jargon-shock doesn't mean you should throw your hands up - try scanning it, since they put the lay conclusions in bold:
The LPL Ser447-Stop mutation therefore should have a protective effect against the development of atherosclerosis and subsequent CAD.
These associations provide evidence for a common mutation that appears to confer beneficial lipid and lipoprotein profiles amongst an adult male population with regard to risk of CAD.
This is a rare example of an inherited functional human disorder in which a mutation affecting splicing still permits some correct splicing to occur and this has a beneficial effect to the phenotype of the patients.
Gbeta3-s appears to be associated with enhanced immune cell function in humans.
Patients with the QQ or H7H7 genotype had a decreased risk of myocardial infarction...
From this site.
From reading these, can you at least glean that beneficial mutations have been found in humans, that reduce heart disease and improve immune system function?
Though not on that site, mutations have also been found in humans that make them resistant to infectious disease (HIV, malaria), and better able to function in high-altitude, low-oxygen environments - and likely others as well.
Are you convinced yet?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 8:00 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-10-2005 12:09 AM pink sasquatch has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 15 of 33 (184252)
02-09-2005 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 7:17 PM


try this one too
Just a moment...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
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