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Author | Topic: Mesonychidae to Whale Question | |||||||||||||||||||||
outblaze Inactive Member |
http://www.trueorigin.org//whales.asp
This trueorigin article discusses the descent of whales from Mesonychida. Does the scientific community characterize this descent as a scientific "hypothesis" or a scientific "theory"? If Mesonychida-whale evolution is viewed more as a hypothesis, could it also be considered conjecture? tks for any comments
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
A hypothesis, and one that's in some amount of shadow right now. Work published within the last year by Hans Thewissen and his group suggest that whales are more closely related to hippopotami - molecular data had already suggested that.
http://www.neoucom.edu/Depts/Anat/whaleorigins.htm has some details. I guess Tr/O needs an updated article. I wouldn't call the whale-mesonychian hypothesis a "conjecture," though. There appears to have been a lot of fossil data backing it up, but the new fossils Thewissen found provided new data, which better support a hippo relationship. Edited to add:Indiana University Bloomington has bunches of stuff, with links. [This message has been edited by Coragyps, 11-23-2002]
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Karl Inactive Member |
Mind you, it really only comes down to whether the archocaetes were nephews or sons of the Mesonychids - IIRC, they're all ungulates anyway. It's another question that creationists like to try to capitalise on, but it really doesn't cast any doubt on the general course of cetacean evolution.
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outblaze Inactive Member |
quote: Got it thanks to you and Coragyps for the comments and links.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Sharon357 posted the following good, but off-topic message, at http://EvC Forum: Does evidence of transitional forms exist ? (Hominid and other) -->EvC Forum: Does evidence of transitional forms exist ? (Hominid and other)
quote: Another whale topic is at "Genetic evidence of Whale evolution" Moose
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contracycle Inactive Member |
Excellent links, thanks.
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Sharon357 Inactive Member |
Accidentally posted twice. Sorry!
I'm erasing this one. [This message has been edited by Sharon357, 09-07-2003]
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Sharon357 Inactive Member |
These articles were recently added:
Anatomy of modern whales (photos contributed by the Milwaukee Public Museum) accompanied with a brief commentary on the museum exhibit/ whale anatomy / whale evolution by Hans Thewissen, Ph.D.Whale Anatomy and Photos of Limb Rudiments on Modern Day Whales Thewissen makes the best argument, explaining it is only normal (in difference to what AIG has said), only normal for these vestigial hind limbs to be used in reproduction! Only normal, for even humans and other mammals, have leg muscles attached to genitalia. 55 million years ago, the longer legs on whales, like humans, had muscles from the genitalia attached to legs... as the legs shrank down through evolutionary history, the muscles are still attached. So the argument by AIG means nothing! Also Hans Thewissen verifies beyond doubt, the whale skeleton exhibit with the rudimentary bones attached, that there was indeed a femur but it these are made of cartilage, so it is not present in the mount at the Museum. For those who are intrigued with the work of Hans Thewissen, I'll add this information also... WKSU Radio - Featuring Hans ThewissenPage Not Found | WKSU VERY GOOD! We're working on a neat new website now, that shows the embryological data. Little dolphin embryos with hind limbs for instance. Suspected launch: fall 2003.http://darla.neoucom.edu/...S/FACULTY/BMSfac/ThewissenJ.html Thewissen - Northeastern Ohio Universities - J. G. M. Hans Thewissen, Ph. D. Also... Located in the August 2003 Latest Directory:Photos of Hind Limb Rudiments on Modern Day Whales (and Cretinist Answers)by Edward T. Babinski Photos of hind limb rudiments on modern day whales (and creationist "answers") (In relation to Ed Babinski's Cetacean/Whale Evolution article)located at Whale Evolution and Atavistic Hind Limbs on Modern Whales As for the article with the response from Dr.Jonathan Sarfati,located at:File Not Found has been temporarily disabled, because of this: ----- Original Message -----From: AiG Mail To: webmaster@edwardtbabinski.us Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 11:00 AM Subject: Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Ph.D. Dear Webmaster of Ed Babinski, ... then he’ll talk. -----------so, the webmaster of edwardtbabinski.us is under the impression that Dr. Sarfati will indeed give a serious debate about the reality of vestigial hind limbs on whales/cetaceans with Ed Babinski. I hope so. Scrivenings Update Note on August 3, 2005Sarfati never fulfilled on his promise. There was no debate on the issue. He dealt with the photographs by ignoring them. This message has been edited by Sharon357, 08-03-2005 10:35 PM
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Moose writes: Sarfati seems too intelligent to be that dense. Wonder why the guy sees red where the rest of us see blue?
The public may also review the amusing response by Jonathan Sarfati, Ph.D., from Answers in Genesis, in regard to Ed's earliest version of "Cetacean Evolution". (Long before Ed got the article on the web).
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sarfati seems too intelligent to be that dense. Wonder why the guy sees red where the rest of us see blue? Because the bottomless pit to draw money from is the Christian Cult of Ignorance and Communion of Bobbleheads. As long as it is more profitable to lie and get paid for it, the Creationists will continue to hawk their snakeoil. Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/12/19/whale-ancestor.html
quote: With pictures:Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 Video:Videos | Nature Nature article (abstract):Whales originated from aquatic artiodactyls in the Eocene epoch of India | Nature quote: Can you say muskrat? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added refs we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. |
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DJ1 Junior Member (Idle past 5830 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
I think I have these in the correct order in terms of cetacean evolution,
IndohyusPakicetus Nalacetus Ichthyolestes Gandakasia Ambulocetus Himalayacetus Attockicetus Remingtonocetus Dalanistes Kutchicetus Andrewsiphius Indocetus Qaisracetus Takracetus Artiocetus Babiacetus Protocetus Pappocetus Eocetus Georgiacetus Natchitochia Dorudon Ancalacetus Zygorhiza Saghacetus Chrysocetus Gaviacetus Pontogeneus Basilosaurus Basiloterus |
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