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Author Topic:   How do you define the word Evolution?
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 936 (259689)
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


Released from PNT. --Admin

How do you define evolution? I ask you to post your definition of evolution.

Why? Because over and over I see arguments based on differing opinions of the words being used. If we lack a common definition, we can scarcely be successful in our discussions. I suspect that evolution is one of those key words that evoke many different concepts in the minds of the readers and writers. With this thread, we may be able to see and understand some of those differences.

I ask that all definitions be less than 90 words in total. Keep it short, clear, and to the point. No justifications, no rationales, no references. Don’t go look it up then write what you read in your own words. Just post your concise opinion. Note that for reference, this paragraph, including these last sentences, contains 90 words as counted by Microsoft Word. I have added a little extra BS just to get this close to the exact value so we will have an easy reference. Three more words.

Before you make any arguments to support your position or to dispute other positions, please allow a few days for everyone to post their opinion. I wish to see each person's mental concept of the word evolution.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 11-14-2005 4:17 PM bkelly has not yet responded
 Message 3 by deerbreh, posted 11-14-2005 4:30 PM bkelly has not yet responded
 Message 4 by arachnophilia, posted 11-14-2005 5:10 PM bkelly has not yet responded
 Message 11 by U can call me Cookie, posted 11-15-2005 11:08 AM bkelly has responded
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-15-2005 2:55 PM bkelly has responded
 Message 13 by Ben!, posted 11-15-2005 3:29 PM bkelly has not yet responded
 Message 18 by Lammy, posted 11-16-2005 2:58 AM bkelly has responded
 Message 24 by EZscience, posted 11-16-2005 2:13 PM bkelly has not yet responded
 Message 57 by dwise1, posted 03-15-2017 11:20 PM bkelly has not yet responded
 Message 97 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 1:11 AM bkelly has not yet responded
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Percy
Member
Posts: 15917
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 2 of 936 (259691)
11-14-2005 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


Darwin's definition:

The change in species over time due to descent with modification and natural selection.

More modern definition:

The change over time of the genetic makeup of species through natural selection operating on accumulated genetic variation and mutations.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bkelly, posted 11-14-2005 4:10 PM bkelly has not yet responded

    
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 426 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 3 of 936 (259692)
11-14-2005 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


Assuming you mean biological evolution, Percy's definitions are good ones.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bkelly, posted 11-14-2005 4:10 PM bkelly has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 266 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 936 (259702)
11-14-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


How do you define evolution? I ask you to post your definition of evolution.

the variation in frequency of heritable features in a population between generations.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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AK-7
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 936 (259740)
11-14-2005 6:55 PM


In the broadest sense,
Change over time.

More relevant to this, in the realm of biology,
Changes in the makeup of a population through hereditary attributes which allow that population to survive in a given environment.

I'm trying to be as vague/broad as possible to encompass all situations.


  
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 936 (259756)
11-14-2005 11:04 PM


Wider response base wanted
Although this thread has not been active very long, I am interested in definitions from those who are adamantly opposed to ToE and those that accept at least some of it’s tenants but also believe in an outside influence. If you have doubts or misgivings, what is your definition? At this point I don’t want to argue, just to hear your position.


Truth fears no question.

bkelly


  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5533
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 7 of 936 (259757)
11-14-2005 11:07 PM


generally - change over time.

In a biological context - common descent and change over time between generations.


  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3539
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 8 of 936 (259782)
11-15-2005 12:10 AM


From a discussion in the distant past
I came up with my most generalized definition of the fact and theory of evolution (not just biological evolution). I was so proud of myself, that I put it in my "signature". The first four words are the fact, the rest the theory.

Sometime people, here and elsewhere, get snooty when you use the term "evolution" for things outside of biology. I say "screw them". :)

Originally the "Biological Evolution" forum was the "Evolution" forum. The name change was made to exclude non-biological evolution themes.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
    
Cal
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 936 (259809)
11-15-2005 1:44 AM


Change in a population over time as the result of differential competitive success among imperfect replicators.

And since my definition is so concise, I'll use up some of the remainder of my 90 word issue by offering one of my favorite poems, brought to mind by this:

Note that for reference, this paragraph, including these last sentences, contains 90 words as counted by Microsoft Word.

There's only one "r" in this poem
Unless, of course, you count that one.
And then there's the one in the word "course".
And "there" too, and "word" and...

Oh, never mind.


  
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 936 (259918)
11-15-2005 10:48 AM


Its time to include my definition.

When a descendant’s inheritable characteristics differ from those of its parent(s).

This includes when a trait changes from dominant to recessive or the reverse.

I define it this way in part because I had one person tell me that changes caused by humans (such as dogs from wolves and new strains of mice) don't count as evolution. Only changes that happen in nature (not human caused) are evolution.


Truth fears no question.

bkelly


Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by deerbreh, posted 11-16-2005 10:40 AM bkelly has responded

  
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 2486 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 11 of 936 (259922)
11-15-2005 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


First Post , Woot!
Evolution, simply put, is Change. Biologically, it is change in allele frequencies between successive generations, sometimes leading to phenotypic change. Nb. Natural selection is not the only mechanism (eg. sexual selection, genetic drift also apply).

PS.( not incl. in 90 words!) this is my first post to EvC! been a lurker for a few months now, and finally decided to shrug off my cloak of invisibility!


So intimate that your hand upon my chest is my hand,
so intimate that when I fall asleep it is your eyes that close.
- Pablo Neruda
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by bkelly, posted 11-15-2005 8:59 PM U can call me Cookie has responded
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11707
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 12 of 936 (259983)
11-15-2005 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


Evolution is the process of evolving. To evolve is to gradually change.

Biological evolution is a change in an allele frequency of a population.

Why would you need 90 words?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bkelly, posted 11-14-2005 4:10 PM bkelly has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by bkelly, posted 11-15-2005 9:04 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1155 days)
Posts: 1154
From: San Diego, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 13 of 936 (259993)
11-15-2005 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
11-14-2005 4:10 PM


Ben's definition
Evolution is change over time due to some interaction.

In biological evolution, the units of analysis is usually a species, with change due to mutation and the interaction of species with environment which must allow them to continue to reproduce (i.e. natural selection)

But not all biological evolution has these units of analysis, and other things that may usefull be called evolution have different units of analysis.

Ben


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bkelly, posted 11-14-2005 4:10 PM bkelly has not yet responded

    
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 936 (260050)
11-15-2005 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by U can call me Cookie
11-15-2005 11:08 AM


Re: First Post , Woot!
As other say, Welcome to the fray. I am glad you spoke up and joined us.

Since you did, I will admit some ignorance and ask for an explanation.

Cookie writes:

Biologically, it is change in allele frequencies between successive generations,....

allele
noun: one of two alternate forms of a gene that can have the same locus on homologous chromosomes and are responsible for alternative traits

homologous
adj: having the same evolutionary origin but serving different functions
adj: corresponding or similar in position or structure or function or characteristics

When I apply these specific definitions to your definition I find my self no better off and need some help here. This definition of evolution seems to restrict it to changes that occur to genes that come in two alternate forms and in the same location. That seems like an unnecessary restriction. To me, any gene that changes from parent to offspring represents evolution to some degree regardless of what or where that gene is. And why must there be a change in frequency? I have seen that phrase several times and have yet to understand it.

When you write or speak the word evolution is this the definition that you have in mind?

Again, thank for joining us.


Truth fears no question.

bkelly


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by U can call me Cookie, posted 11-15-2005 11:08 AM U can call me Cookie has responded

Replies to this message:
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bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 936 (260057)
11-15-2005 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by New Cat's Eye
11-15-2005 2:55 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

Why would you need 90 words?

Obviously we don't. I was and am hoping that some that hold the concept of evolution to be false would post their definition. It occured to me that they might want to explain and to ensure that I understood, I wanted the answer short and simple.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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