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Author Topic:   Creation, Evolution, and faith
Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2422 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 1 of 2 (552404)
03-28-2010 7:04 PM


I hope I'm am doing this the correct way as this is my first proposed topic since joining. I've admitted here that I am a little behind most here when it comes to the knowledge of creation vs. evolution. There is still a ton for me to digest and learn.
I'm taking the thread titled "Personal Philosophy" found here EvC Forum: Personal Philosophy kind of running with it in my own topic that I would like to expound on. Many replied and I would like a more detailed discussion on some of the things that were said.
Since discussions on geology, astronomy, genome, mutations, ect are a little (and sometimes way) out of my league at this point, I would like to just discuss/debate presuppositions from both sides. I'd first like to stipulate to the fact that creations believe what they do based first and primarily on faith. It's certainly debatable if this faith is backed by facts (I believe it is in my early studies, but that's not the point of this discussion). I would hope that all YEC would stipulate that faith in the inerrant Word of God is the presupposition for our beliefs. The Bible is chalked full of faith references. To name just some:
Hebrews 11:1 pretty much gives the Biblical definition of faith in saying, "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."
Hebrews follows up with many examples of faith displayed in the Bible such as, vs. 3, "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what is visible".
vs. 7, "By faith, Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world......".
And of course a the Bible clearly says one is saved by grace, through faith.
So, I would be terribly amiss if a creationist/Christian were to deny faith as their presupposition, even within the creation/evolution debate. Science just can not completely validate the Bible or creation. We depend more on faith and the Word of God, and I'm not ashamed to admit that on a primarily science forum.
Now, my post takes the turn here. I believe the above can be said for the evolutionist. Here's where I get confused on terms however. When I say evolutionist, I am talking about the evolutionist who believes in no ID or God who started the process, but the scientist who believes that natural selection is the sole catalyst in the process from the start of nothing, to what we see now. With that being clarified, I hope, I propose that evolutionists start with a presupposition of faith, just from a different worldview.
Charles Darwin created a theory, not based on fact, but on his philosophy of life and belief system. I understand much, an earth's time in fact, as been learned about science since Darwin proposed his theories in the 1800's. But the fact is, Darwin had faith and did not deny this. For example, a few of his quotes:
"This difficulty, though appearing insuperable, is lessened, or, as I believe, disappears, when it is remembered that selection may be applied to the family, as well as to the individual...."
"The electric organs of fishes offer another case of special difficulty; it is impossible to conceive by what steps these wondrous organs have been produced; but, ...we must own that we are far too ignorant to argue that no transition of any kind is possible."
Then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.
Other more modern day evolutionists such as T. H. Huxley admitted his belief in evolution was an act of philosophic faith. And Herbert Spencer admitted that, Even in its most defensible shape there are serious difficulties in its way."
So I believe imo, that evolution requires faith. More specifically then even these Darwin quotes, I believe it requires faith from the outset, but not so much once science is involved. What I mean is, no one knows how evolution started. How the process began. Was it a big bang? Was it an ocean of soup charged by energy? What was it? In order to believe in evolution, no matter what science may tell us, it takes faith from the outset to believe that something scientific started it. No one can reproduce the beginnings in a lab, as far as I know. We still can't reproduce something out of nothing, even with all of our modern technology. Everything that we know is formed from something else in existence.
So, does evolution require faith? I believe it does. Rahvin stated in the thread I mentioned above that it doesn't matter what started it all...well, why doesn't it matter? Isn't that a fairly important question that needs to be answered?
Thanks in advance for your responses. I look forward to a spirited debate on this topic. For the record, my quotes come from the NIV Bible and from "Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin.
Edited by Flyer75, : No reason given.

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Message 2 of 2 (552436)
03-29-2010 6:41 AM


Thread Copied to Is It Science? Forum
Thread copied to the Creation, Evolution, and faith thread in the Is It Science? forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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