Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,789 Year: 4,046/9,624 Month: 917/974 Week: 244/286 Day: 5/46 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   National Refendum on Tax Code -- grass roots politics
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 13 (686180)
12-29-2012 4:00 PM


I have started a petition to the US government:
petition: The White House
quote:
we petition the obama administration to:
Hold a national referendum on the tax code and proposed changes through a series of conventions in each state that any citizen can attend, participate in, and where the proposals are voted on by the people in attendance.
The goal is a fair and just system that comes from the people rather than special interest groups.
This can be achieved by the process of elimination -- removing the proposals with the least votes: compile the top 10 from each state, and then vote nation-wide, take the top 10 and vote again, then the top 5 and vote again, and then taking the top 2 and vote for the final plan. Let everyone have two votes: one for, and one against.
Future changes to the tax code could then be approved by the people during national elections.
You will need to sign up to vote for any of the proposals (presumably cuts down on multiple signings).
Note that I need 150 signatures for the petition to be published on the petition website: Error 404
People will need to sign up for a free login to sign (and you can then sign any petition that is published).
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 12-31-2012 9:31 AM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 13 (686182)
12-29-2012 4:18 PM


For long term ...
If the US has any hope of major reform I think a first step needed is to revise Inheritance Tax to prevent the continuation and growth of a monied class.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by ramoss, posted 12-29-2012 4:34 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 4:43 PM jar has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 638 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 3 of 13 (686183)
12-29-2012 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
12-29-2012 4:18 PM


Re: For long term ...
In addition, it has to treat capital gain income just the same as salaries.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 12-29-2012 4:18 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 4:48 PM ramoss has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 13 (686184)
12-29-2012 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
12-29-2012 4:18 PM


Re: For long term ... inheritance tax revision
Hi jar,
... I think a first step needed is to revise Inheritance Tax ...
So what's your proposal? My brothers and I are currently looking at $90,000 inheritance tax, while my older brother and I are retired and that is nearly the salary of the younger one.
Problem is that these can be substantial one-time events. Perhaps they could be treated like IRA's rather than income -- with the option to have them doled out as an annuity rather than a lump sum.
The other side of the argument is that taxes were (presumably) paid as that wealth was built up by the parent, the children did nothing to create these funds and so it is not tax on their work\action\investments.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : added

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 12-29-2012 4:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 12-29-2012 5:02 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 13 (686186)
12-29-2012 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by ramoss
12-29-2012 4:34 PM


Re: For long term ... capital gains taxes
Hi ramoss,
... it has to treat capital gain income just the same as salaries.
Agreed -- anything that results in net increase in wealth since the previous year should be taxed on the same basis.
See The 50-50-50-50-50 tax and economic plan. for additional comments.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by ramoss, posted 12-29-2012 4:34 PM ramoss has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 13 (686188)
12-29-2012 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
12-29-2012 4:43 PM


Re: For long term ... inheritance tax revision
First let me make sure everyone understands that I am talking about inheritance tax as opposed to an estate tax.
I think the tax should be on a progressive scale that is based on multiples of the prior years single person poverty rate. If the person getting the inheritance takes it as an annuity then it would be tax on the amount that would be received during each tax period; if taken as a lump sum then it would be a much higher tax based on the relationship between the total amount and that years single person poverty rate.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 4:43 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 6:14 PM jar has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 13 (686194)
12-29-2012 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
12-29-2012 5:02 PM


Re: For long term ... inheritance tax revision
Hi jar,
... I am talking about inheritance tax as opposed to an estate tax.
What is the difference?
... If the person getting the inheritance takes it as an annuity then it would be tax on the amount that would be received during each tax period; if taken as a lump sum then it would be a much higher tax based on the relationship between the total amount and that years single person poverty rate.
But tax was paid when the money was earned -- shouldn't this be regarded the same as a ROTH IRA?
Just asking.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 12-29-2012 5:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 12-29-2012 6:19 PM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 8 of 13 (686195)
12-29-2012 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
12-29-2012 6:14 PM


Re: For long term ... inheritance tax revision
An Estate tax is based on the total amount before any distribution. An Inheritance tax is based on the actual distribution to each individual. This is really important when considering a progressive tax rate.
Inheritance is not just money earned, it can be land that has appreciated or other objects.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 6:14 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by RAZD, posted 12-30-2012 9:30 PM jar has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 13 (686295)
12-30-2012 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
12-29-2012 6:19 PM


... looking for more signers to the petition ...
Hi Jar,
An Inheritance tax is based on the actual distribution to each individual. This is really important when considering a progressive tax rate.
Gotcha, thanks,
Now looking for more signers to the petition -- we currently have 6 and need to have 150 total to be published in the public domain.
Share on facebook or twitter if you can.
The White House
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 12-29-2012 6:19 PM jar has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 13 (686328)
12-31-2012 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
12-29-2012 4:00 PM


What good would the proposals do?
Constitutionally it is the Congress that has power over taxation.
Besides, who has the time to attend conventions besides filthy rich people who don't have to work for their money?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2012 4:00 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 12-31-2012 9:54 AM Jon has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 13 (686331)
12-31-2012 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
12-31-2012 9:31 AM


Hi Jon
What good would the proposals do?
Tell the politicians what the people want, what they can run on for the next election.
Constitutionally it is the Congress that has power over taxation.
And they need to be told what the people want, not the special interests.
Besides, who has the time to attend conventions besides filthy rich people who don't have to work for their money?
If held in summer, college students, unemployed, retired, people on vacation, etc etc.
If you are really interested in solutions you will find a way.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 12-31-2012 9:31 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 12-31-2012 2:43 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 13 (686366)
12-31-2012 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
12-31-2012 9:54 AM


What good would the proposals do?
Tell the politicians what the people want, what they can run on for the next election.
Opinion polls do that; and the politicians still run on the 'we are gonna screw you over' platformand they still get elected!
Constitutionally it is the Congress that has power over taxation.
And they need to be told what the people want, not the special interests.
They don't care what the people want; the special interests decide that.
If you are really interested in solutions you will find a way.
... to just go and vote in November for politicians that might make a difference.
I just don't see anything being fixed by this.
It's a good ideal, though.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 12-31-2012 9:54 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 13 (686467)
01-01-2013 8:48 PM


Now have 7 signatures ... still need 143 to get launched in the public domain ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024