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Author Topic:   Women In 1 Corinthians
Taz
Member (Idle past 851 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 2 (452682)
01-31-2008 1:11 AM


Ok, here is the whole chapter so there's no confusion.

quote:
1 Corinthians 14

Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

Orderly Worship

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.


I want to focus on the following quote which is directly from the chapter above.

quote:
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Ok, read that in context of the chapter. Ok, read it again. One more time.

Let's look at each statement made in that particular passage.

quote:
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches.

I see 2 ways you can possibly interpret this. One is by face value of those words and the other... you have to use a little bit of imagination.

The first way is as written, that as in ALL the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. I don't think you can get anymore self-explanatory than that.

The other interpretation is as ICANT seems to suggest, that women should remain silent when it comes to speaking in tongues. But why only women? Surely, if Paul was concern about people speaking in tongues or misinterpreting god's words, he would have stated just that, that both men and women should be careful with that. Instead, he specifically referred to women and ordering them to remain silent.

quote:
They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.

Again, 2 possible interpretations.

The first is taking it at its face value, that women are not allowed to speak and they must be in submission as the Law says. Again, very self-explanatory.

The second way to interpret this is as ICANT suggested, that women are not allowed to speak in tongues OR that they are not allowed to question those who are speaking in tongues. Again, why only target women?

quote:
If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Again, 2 possible interpretations.

The first is taking the words at its face value, that if the women want to inquire something they should ask their husbands at home because for them to speak in church is disgraceful. Very self-explanatory.

The second way to interpret this is that women are not allowed to ask questions about those speaking in tongues and they should only ask their questions at home rather than speak in the church because it's disgraceful for them to speak in church about speaking in tongues.

Um, why only target women if you didn't mean to downplay their role in society?

As far as I can see this, both of these interpretations clearly put women in a position that is inferior to their male counterparts.

ICANT writes:

I an not going to try to rationalize this passage. To do so I would have to have rational people to explain it to. Since you and Taz have your mind made up it would take too many posts, And I am not going to try Percy's patience.


ICANT, I am very confused, and so far you've refused to explain why you don't think this is an example of scripture putting down women. Here is a thread dedicated to this particular topic so please feel free to post as many messages on this as you need to. If you need more than 300, I will be happy to start a second thread on this.

And also, here is a humble request for Admin. At anytime, if you feel you need to suspend ICANT for whatever reason in regard to this topic, please suspend me instead so ICANT has nothing to fear and thus should be able to fully explain this to me and others here who are very eager to hear his very wise explanation on this topic.


Admin
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Message 2 of 2 (452752)
01-31-2008 9:42 AM


Thread copied to the Women In 1 Corinthians thread in the Bible Study forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
  
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