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Author Topic:   Fundamentalist Recovery?
Atos
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 24 (99961)
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


First a bit of history: I am a guy who was raised very Southern Baptist, went to church three times a week with the family growing up, and have had way more than my fair share of Hell and Brimstone. The problem is, that even as a teenager, it all really did not add up. It scared me. I tried and tried to ask Jesus to come into my heart. I prayed, and did all the things the church told me to do, but nada. OK, maybe I just didn't do it right. So I jumped into bible study, and got even more confused. Even as a kid I couldn't see how rational people really believed what was in the bible. I concluded that people went to church to be seen, and because it "looked good". My parents were big on looking good - Dad was a bank president, and mom was always supportive of him. They never were pushy about religion, but used it to help them raise and control their kids. It seem to be an effective tool to control people who cannot, or don't want to think for themselves.
After High School, I went to the military, college, and onto life in general. I bet I went to church 2 or 3 times in 10 years (Holidays) - I just didn't need, or want it. I am successful, and happy, with no god in sight.
When my younger sister had her first child, you would have thought that she invented childbirth, and her baby was a direct miracle from god, not biology 101. She went WAY off the religious deep end, and stayed that way for many years. Think of the most wacko fundamentalist you have ever seen - that was her. OK, that made family holidays weird, because she believed all the rest of us were the "enemy" and "of the world" and were all going to hell, but we dealt with it. She weirded out her kids as well... I remember my niece had to be "Bible Girl" for Halloween....
Anyway skip ahead about 10 years and she decides to go back to school to get her degree. She is majoring in psychology. Well what would you know...within about a year and a half something changes. She takes a step out of her little god-world, and is surprised to find out that she may have been a little closed minded. She took a class on Western Civilization, and learned much about other world religions, and how everyone pretty much believes the same thing anyway. Skip ahead a few more years, and she is now done a complete turnaround, and is almost to the point of disgust at the religious zealot she used to be, and is quite embarrassed actually. She is also much better at family holidays now that we are no longer Satan's spawn. She is my "proof" that people can break free of the "cult-like" views that get pounded into their heads in a fundamentalist church.
Now to the reason for my post... I am now in a relationship with a wonderful woman. She is just out of a divorce where she was married to a man who exercised 100% control of her and everything else, through (you guessed it) religion. This guy conned her out of about $250,000 to put in his company, wouldn't let her leave the house, have friends, etc... Church was expected almost everyday, and he berated her into total and complete submission (in the name of the lord).
He is gone now, but she seems to be in this "limbo" spiritually... She had this "Christ like" man who treated her horribly, didn't let her see her family/friends and suppressed every spark of life she had. All of her "church friends" supported him, and told her wives were to be submissive, etc, etc... Not the best advice in my opinion.
Now I come along, a good guy, good morals, treats her extremely well, and things are great. EXCEPT... for the fact that she is still caught up in the religion that kept her a prisoner for so long. She will start crying because she "wants god to bless us", and she is afraid for her eternal life, etc... She realized she was controlled and victimized by religion, and does not want that again, but regresses often, and breaks down emotionally because of the inherit guilt religion requires of it's followers.
I have been a good sport, and am trying to "meet her halfway" even going to church with her from time to time. I have also been studying the bible to better get a grasp of what I am dealing with. The bible is just as confusing to me now as when I was a teenager, but I can much better see it for the mythology/historical text that it really is at this point in my life.
Slowly she is realizing that her "church friends" were kinda wacko, her Ex was a religious nut case, and maybe, just maybe, the entire world is not going to burn in hell. I do not want to do anything to "force" or otherwise influence her to think as I do. I do hope that over time, she will gradually figure it out, like my sister did...
What are some of your examples of how some of you broke free of religious control, and how did you feel? What are some of the challenges? What are some things I can do to make her feel that she can be a real thinking person, without fear of burning in hell?

Replies to this message:
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 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 04-14-2004 6:06 PM Atos has not replied
 Message 5 by SRO2, posted 04-14-2004 6:19 PM Atos has not replied
 Message 6 by Loudmouth, posted 04-14-2004 6:49 PM Atos has not replied
 Message 13 by Riley, posted 04-15-2004 2:04 AM Atos has not replied
 Message 14 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 04-20-2004 8:17 PM Atos has not replied
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2004 12:28 AM Atos has replied
 Message 20 by kofh2u, posted 04-22-2004 5:20 PM Atos has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 24 (100002)
04-14-2004 3:44 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
{Edited to add my "signature"}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-14-2004]

WHERE TO GO TO START A NEW TOPIC (For other than "Welcome, Visitors!", "Suggestions and Questions", "Practice Makes Perfect", and "Short Subjects")
Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 24 (100021)
04-14-2004 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


books, self help
the are books available on cult deprogramming, and a bit of google work should give you a list and a bunch of reviews
for instance I found this one
http://www.freedomofmind.com/...cecenter/books/rtb-intro.htm
on Releasing The Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves, by Steven Hassan, which has a lot of material on-line
amazon.com usually has reviews of books by people who have read them, and in this case the re are 6 reviews by customers with several different perspectives.
You may want to explore this topic together.
I can also put you in touch with someone who has been through this as well.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Atos, posted 04-14-2004 1:36 PM Atos has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 725 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 24 (100031)
04-14-2004 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


Hey, Atos, welcome!
I won't be a lot of help, but you might take that same post over to Internet Infidels, probably to the Secular Lifestyle forum - there are some very good folks over there who will have been through the same sort of adventure.
url - Oops! We ran into some problems. | Internet Infidels Discussion Board

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Atos, posted 04-14-2004 1:36 PM Atos has not replied

  
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 24 (100034)
04-14-2004 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


Welcome
Devoutly religious people can't seem to be left alone with it very long, they become obsessed with it and can't seem to snap back into reality.

This message is a reply to:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 24 (100041)
04-14-2004 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


Atos,
My only advice is to help her realize that a belief in God and religion are not the same thing. A Church is man made while God is a spiritual being. "By their fruits you will know them" is not a bad criteria to go by. If a congregation makes her feel taken advantage of, belittled, and guilt ridden it probably isn't a "fruitful" congregation. If it were me, I would try and help her move to another congregation that still fits within her current ideology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Atos, posted 04-14-2004 1:36 PM Atos has not replied

  
Atos
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 24 (100047)
04-14-2004 7:13 PM


Thanks for the welcome...I was very happy to find this forum.
I don't know if "de-programming" is the right word, just pretty much snapping back to reality. The reality that the ex is not actually godly at all was quite a revelation. He actually is more criminal than most anyone I have known, all of course in the name of the lord.
I am not saying Christians are bad, most are very nice, but they are bad when they profess one thing, and live something else...
I read another thread discussing the absolute of if something is not of God, then it is of "the world", thus, if it is of the world, it is evil... This is the stuff I am dealing with.... Also, the whole "The enemy" thing makes me laugh...
I was successful in convincing her that Harry Potter is not actually satan...score! She is actually a very intelligent woman, but this guy stripped her of all self confidence, then replaced it with selective bible teachings... That seems to be pretty common, and quite effective...

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by SRO2, posted 04-14-2004 7:21 PM Atos has not replied
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2004 11:58 PM Atos has not replied
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2004 12:41 AM Atos has replied

  
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 24 (100053)
04-14-2004 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Atos
04-14-2004 7:13 PM


Double bible belt
I'm from the bible belt too, it's astonishing how much "zealotry" (is that word?) is actually evil....I've recently taken up with the art of excersizing demons from devoutly pure christians as an ahteist minister...I had no idea how much work there is in that brand new field...I should charge for it.

This message is a reply to:
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Atos
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 24 (100062)
04-14-2004 7:47 PM


"zealotry" is the best way to describe it, proper english or not... I can't actually believe these guys act so proper and prim around each other, but behind closed doors, many many of them are basically bad people.
Do you think all of these people realize the hypocrisy, or are they really that caught up in the fervor?

Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 24 (100076)
04-14-2004 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Atos
04-14-2004 7:47 PM


No, they actually aren't aware of it, so they can't really be pesecuted for it either. I think it's completely innocent...you've seen it hundreds of times in other people...it's those people that can't fathom why everybody behaves the way they do towards them...some here would say the same could be concluded about me...now that I've said that...can it?
I am keenly aware of what people post about my character, and in some cases they are right and in others they aren't...and I know the difference.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 24 (100121)
04-14-2004 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Atos
04-14-2004 7:13 PM


don't dismiss deprogramming too quickly. many techniques used for "brainwashing" are also used by religions -- studying about it may show you how applicable it is. but do not force issue.

This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5581 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 12 of 24 (100143)
04-15-2004 1:47 AM


I kinda feel you should remind her that Jesus is God clothed in the flesh, so that when by faith she became saved, for when one accepts Christ, your eating his flesh and drinking his blood, he becomes your Savior, he is the vine, we are the branches.
P.S. I don't like the idea of inviting a spirit into ones heart(what about the anti-christ spirit), always asking to be let in. Once your saved you have that spiritual relationship that comes from the Father, as long as she doesn't lose the faith and abides in the vine which is Christ. I would say that its about faith, encourage her to be an overcomer, that greater is he that is in her than is in the world. I'd also recommend saying the Our Father, which says so many things, like lead us not into temptation, deliver us from evil, which is a prayer to the Father. The devil is a like a lion seeking to devour. I just try to keep it simple, a simple faith, it doesn't have to be complicated. Jesus is Lord, Love the Father and love one another as Christ loved, and you fullfill what the entire basis of the laws of the prophets. Its about having a loving heart, and not wallowing in the mire, Jesus said he is meek and lowly in spirit, and his yoke is easy. I'm sure there are loving Christians that are Catholics, Baptists, that are just keeping it simple by being wiser than the serpent, by having a loving heart in Christ.
[This message has been edited by whatever, 04-15-2004]

  
Riley
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 24 (100145)
04-15-2004 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


I'd find a professional who counsels couples, and I'd work from the proposition of removing obstacles to the relationship rather than "freeing" her from religious excesses. Because I believe it's best in the long run, if a long run is your intention, that you not be the instigator of her break with religion, but of a positive improvement in your ability to communicate and work together.
Obviously, the religious problem is going to be a big part of the process, and it will be much better if that comes from a therapist than from you. A decent therapist sees people whose lives are disrupted by religion all the time.
It is--and I mean no disrespect to anyone here--like training a cat. You might possibly smack bad responses out of someone, but you're much more likely to become an object of some resentment, even if it's kept hidden from you. Start with getting some expert guidance in communicating. And best wishes to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Atos, posted 04-14-2004 1:36 PM Atos has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6146 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 14 of 24 (101343)
04-20-2004 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


Something to consider
Congrats on meeting a good woman. Sounds like she had some rough stuff so I hope you can help her recover.
I've had some bad run-ins with Southern Baptists before... I would consider the general SB to be a fundamentalist, which in my experience all hate me. Kudos to you for surviving that mess.
Anyways, like Loudmouth said, you can believe in God and in His infinite Love and Wisdom without believing in the husband-beating-his wife-whenever-the-bastard-thinks-it-appropriate thing.
If she's worried about salvation all it says in the Christian Holy Scriptures is to accept and love Jesus Christ as your lord and Savior. The little details of the Bible are often in question, sometimes by me, but that Message has not been changed. Amen and God bless to both of you.
And that's the sermon of the day from a preacher in training

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Atos, posted 04-14-2004 1:36 PM Atos has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 24 (101406)
04-21-2004 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Atos
04-14-2004 1:36 PM


Altos, pardon, but if you've been studying the Bible all these years you say you have and still can't make anything of it, are confused and all yourself, I don't see you helping this woman out a bit. It sounds like you need some help yourself.
You say she says her ex conned her out of 250 grand and his church backs him. Something's not right about this picture. I've been in fundie churches all my life and I just don't see all these people in the church backing up a con man if indeed that's what happened.
Then, you going after another man's wife sounds like you maybe aren't as confused about the Bible as you are opposed to what it says about this relationship your delving in. I dono. Could she be exagerating some about her ex to justify her relationship with you? Sounds like you're both messing with God and the Bible to try and justify yourselves.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 04-20-2004]

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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