The decline of the Protestant

We have managed to obtain, by placing a certain sum in the right palm at the right time, the typescript of an upcoming interview in The New Yorker. I'm told it will be severely edited before publication.The interview is with the Dutch writer Johann Van Dumpling, known to the world by his pen name, Parasomnium.Interviewer (smiling brightly): May I call you Para?Parasomnium: No, you may not.Interviewer: Oh . .. uh . . . What is it that inspires you to write, Parasomnium?Parasomnium: The honk of the geese at night
Makes Parasomnium write.Interviewer (gushing): Oh, how interesting, and just what I imagined!The romance of wild nature inspires you!Parasomnium: That's part of it. The other part is that the damned things wake me up about 2:00 am, and I can't go back to sleep. I write in November. That's how "My Life as a Transitional" got written.Interviewer: Oh, yes, the famous "Life." But can you speak of the recently released "Elegy for the TOE," which is causing such a stir?Parasomnium: "Elegy for the TOE" was inspired by a trip I made to Topeka, Kansas, to visit a distant cousin, Barney Dumpling, whose ancestors migrated westward in the 1890's. They dropped the "Van" somewhere in Pennsylvania:On Dutch Hill, where the women fret,
And the miners shudder in hopeless debt,
In the frozen smear of a wintry sunset.That's a litte excerpt from "Elegy."Interviewer: Wonderful!Parasomnium: That was the idea, yes. Circa 1925. "Elegy for the TOE" is a historical panorama of Dutch-cum-American memes, beginning with Lutheranism and a sort of unconscious nature worship and culminating in the sad environs of a school board meeting in Kansas, a "Jesus Saves" sign plastered on the back of a Ford in the parking lot. Next to it is a Chevy decorated with the ridiculous slogan, "I'm not perfect, just forgiven" (as though someone else were arguing that they WERE perfect--"I'm not perfect"--"Oh, yes, you are!") On the wall of the room where they are hammering out their manifesto, with good ole Barney in attendance, there's a photo of Piltdown Man and a copy of Haeckel's drawings. Facsimilies of the 10 Commandments serve as window shades. Got the picture?Interviewer: Got it!Parasomnium: Now let's flash back to Dutch Hill, PA, some 80 years ago, where my distant relatives were close to the soil:She was a lover of water and wind--
That sudden streak across the clouds, and then--
Dramatic pause--a murmur from the sky.Interviewer: Excuse me; who is "she"?Parasomnium (archly): A character. A Dutch girl. In Pennsylvania.Interviewer (blankly): Oh, I see.Parasomnium: Where was I?Or snow, that wonderful white lie,
That turns an ugly barn into a palace,
A corner into curves; a broken bottle, a chalice.Interviewer: Great!Parsomnium: Yes, but the point is that, Lutherans though they were,
they had sense enough in those days to accept and even applaud the political result of the Scopes trial.But look at them now. They drifted away from the old church and splintered into groups, eventually evolving into the current American brand of strip-center religion, the "Charismatic Church of the Flaming God," or some such thing, started with a do-it-yourself religion kit from Walmart, with no educated authorities to guide them, run by hicks, hacks, and salesmen, vulgarizing the fabric of Christianity. That's what "Elegy for the TOE" is about.Interviewer (losing interest): That's so nice. Anything else in your future?Parasomnium: As a matter of fact, I've received an invitation to the Vatican.Interviewer (eyes light up): Wow!Parasomnium: The Pope is celebrating his birthday, and he's concerned about diminishing pomp. He wants to add a little edge to the party--something controversial. Apparently they think I'm a very good stick to beat the Protestants with. But I don't know that I'm going.Interviewer: Not going? Are you out of your mind?Parasomnium: I don't know that I want to preen in front of the Pope. I'm an atheist.Interviewer: Who cares? Just don't mention it. It's free press!
Press is what matters in this world. It's all that matters. Didn't you know that? If you attend that party, I can guarantee you a write-up in The New Yorker. Let me get my boss on the phone; we can wrap this up in no time . . .Parasomnium (not listening, thinking to himself, moving his lips): On the other hand, in the arena of international religious politics, one sometimes has to lie with strange bedfellows . . . One has to consider the political angle . . .Interviewer: Let me get the photographer in here. Just a second . . .

Hit the "New Topic" button, when you meant to hit the "General Reply" button, I presume?AdminnemooseusAdded by edit: Big admin oops - I thought this was already an active topic, not just a PNT - Nevermind.This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-15-2005 01:55 AM

During a time in 20s when all the mainstream denominations had accepted the "higher criticism," these splinter groups or "evangelicals" rebelled. "The scandal of the evangelical mind," says Mark Noll, is that there is not much of an evangelical mind."
("The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind," 1994).With the discovery of penicillin, Science took over, culturally speaking. The representative of Science for the common man was the medical doctor. Finally, he could cure something. And with that, the cultural ascendance of science began. Unfortunately, as always happens when something becomes extremely popular, there were abuses of "science"--little things like Nazism and the like. Everybody grabs for an Answer when there is no answer.So we have various excuses that seem to offer evidence about the "dangers of science." --Richard Rorty, 2002Page not found : Stanford UniversityIs this so-called "literary culture," formulated by Rorty, nihilistic? In one sense of the word "nihilistic," it most certainly is. Both nihilism and this "literary culture" offer no redemptive values, nothing that can be taken seriously--only what Rorty calls "play."What, then, about science? It would be nice if the evangelicals figured out that science explains to us the workings of the physical world and is a practical affair. It does not provide us with redemptive values either. You might as well expect carpentry to be your savior.

I see that as a strange view. Surely Watt's steam engine and the industrial revolution were far more significant. Such accusations are made. I tend to be skeptical of those who attach the "nihilism" label to philosophies they oppose. Historically, the protestants have been at the forefront of accepting science, and using technology to support their evangelism. Even on evolution there was no great opposition. C.S. Lewis accepted theistic evolution. The current creationism and rebellion against science is a very recent invention.

Yes, it is recent. But it is purely Protestant because the evangelicals have taken over. religioustolerance.org.ABE: citationThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 11-17-2005 02:48 PM

"Pluralism" sounds like a good thing, something rather liberalizing. But in this case it was the inculcation of ignorance. That sounds rather pleasant: instead of "doctrine" we have "spirituality and feeling." Actually, however, it's poison. It led to the strip-center religion described above.This is why the Catholic church doesn't mess around with creationism and why these splintered Protestant groups do. From the first generation of Pensylvania Dutch, there is the decline to Barney Dumpling at the Kansas schoolboard.work cited: "Pluralism Comes of Age: American Religious Culture in the 20th Century," by Charles Lippy, 2000. p. 146.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 11-17-2005 07:50 PM

Robin,Although you made me figure rather prominently in your opening post of this thread, I really don't have much to say on the topic. At first I hadn't a clue as to where it was heading, so I thought I'd wait a bit.But I still don't know what to contribute. I think I'll wait some more.

The guy loves you more than Colin Kreevey loves Harry Potter.Let the lil baba love you. awww.

Who is this Colin person?

It's a serious topic, dramatically presented. Actually, it's many topics in one.Dutch Hill, PA, incidentally, is a real place. My wife grew up there.

---

"Turning out pigs for creationists makes me blue and blurry."--Brad McFall

I gathered as much. Clever ploy. Rules out the possibility of topic drift in advance.

Exactly.So I figured I could introduce all these topics which are suggested by the OP all I want, and nobody could object.I have a tendency to drift from topic to topic.Also I wanted to give you a good response for all the work you put in on your poem, but of course it's supposed to be a joke after all.Nobody got the joke. But to my mind the purest artist is the humorist who laughs silently at his own jokes.But Randman will probably shut it down anyway.

As a Protestant,(since I am only a catholic in the universal sense of the christian church) I must say that evangelicals are a mere splinter faction and in no means representative of Protestants in general.Evangelicals are no more in touch with God than were the Absolutist Popes who knew nothing of spirituality save their own pomp and conception.

I think your time line is screwed up.Although penicillin was (re)discovered by Fleming in 1928 it wasn't mass produced until well into the Second World War, so Nazism predates your estimate for when 'Science took over'.

---

I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then