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Author Topic:   What would your doctor say?
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 204 (337504)
08-02-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by nator
08-02-2006 6:41 PM


Re: touchy
The scientific question is, "What religious group do people in certain populations self-identifywith?"
That's all very well, but it doesn't mean much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:41 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:52 PM robinrohan has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 167 of 204 (337508)
08-02-2006 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 6:33 PM


Re: touchy
Again, how do you know this?
quote:
Experience.
...which means "just believe me cuz I know, cuz I just do."
In other words, you "feel" that this is the case but you can't demonstrate it to be so.
Right?
Remember, the whole point of my bringing these stats into this discussion is that the claim was made that Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" along with believers, when the opposite is supported by the data.
You have provided no rational argument for why we should discard all of the data.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:33 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:50 PM nator has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 168 of 204 (337510)
08-02-2006 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by nator
08-02-2006 6:47 PM


Re: touchy
You have provided no rational argument for why we should discard all of the data.
What I'm saying is that just because somebody calls themselves a Christian, in prison, it doesn't mean much.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:47 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:54 PM robinrohan has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 169 of 204 (337512)
08-02-2006 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 6:44 PM


Re: touchy
quote:
The scientific question is, "What religious group do people in certain populations self-identify with?"
quote:
That's all very well, but it doesn't mean much.
Do you reject the self-reported data from the general population?
Why or why not?
Do you reject all self-reported data?
Why or why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:44 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:57 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 170 of 204 (337514)
08-02-2006 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 6:50 PM


Re: touchy
quote:
What I'm saying is that just because somebody calls themselves a Christian, in prison, it doesn't mean much.
So why are the numbers of Christians and Atheists/Agnostics in prison fairly close to that found in the general population?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:50 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:00 PM nator has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 204 (337515)
08-02-2006 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by nator
08-02-2006 6:52 PM


Re: touchy
Do you reject the self-reported data from the general population?
Why or why not?
Not all. It depends on the popularity of the response. Do you recall a case of voting whre this black man was running for some office and supposedly he was supposed to win, and he lost by a landslide? It's because people didn't want to say they weren't going to vote for him, due to politically correct pressure.
Do you reject all self-reported data?
Why or why not?
No. Depends on the circumstances.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:52 PM nator has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 204 (337518)
08-02-2006 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by nator
08-02-2006 6:54 PM


Re: touchy
So why are the numbers of Christians and Atheists/Agnostics in prison fairly close to that found in the general population?
"Fairly close"?
Anyway, it doesn't matter. It proves nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:54 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 7:03 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 175 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 7:09 PM robinrohan has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 173 of 204 (337519)
08-02-2006 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 7:00 PM


Re: touchy
You mean like 95% of Ireland calling themselves Romans Catholic and in a population of 15000 where I live the Roman Catholic church gets maybe 150 attending on Sundays (average age over 50)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:00 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:06 PM iano has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 204 (337521)
08-02-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by iano
08-02-2006 7:03 PM


Re: touchy
You mean like 95% of Ireland calling themselves Romans Catholic and in a population of 15000 where I live the Roman Catholic church gets maybe 150 attending on Sundays (average age over 50)
Yes, and why do they call themselves that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 7:03 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 7:12 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 181 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 7:24 PM robinrohan has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 175 of 204 (337523)
08-02-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 7:00 PM


Re: touchy
So why are the numbers of Christians and Atheists/Agnostics in prison fairly close to that found in the general population?
quote:
"Fairly close"?
Yes.
Prison population-Christian: 83.761%
General population-Christian:76.5%
Prison population-Atheist:0.21%
General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them)
Very close, I'd say.
quote:
Anyway, it doesn't matter. It proves nothing.
Nothing proves anything.
There is data.
How do you explain the data?
How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations?
Why would there be such a similar proportion if people answer randomly or inaccurately most of the time?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:00 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:11 PM nator has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 204 (337524)
08-02-2006 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by nator
08-02-2006 7:09 PM


Re: touchy
How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations?
83 and 76? Quite a few more "Christians" in prison, I'd say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 7:09 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 7:18 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 177 of 204 (337525)
08-02-2006 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 7:06 PM


Re: touchy
You mean like 95% of Ireland calling themselves Romans Catholic and in a population of 15000 where I live the Roman Catholic church gets maybe 150 attending on Sundays (average age over 50)
quote:
Yes, and why do they call themselves that?
This is irrelevant to my point, FYI.
The point I was challenging was that Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" just as much as believers due to their "low morals".
This is not true, as the data shows.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:06 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:18 PM nator has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 204 (337529)
08-02-2006 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by nator
08-02-2006 7:12 PM


Re: touchy
The point I was challenging was that Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" just as much as believers due to their "low morals".
Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have low morals, but we don't need a survey to figure that out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 7:12 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 7:20 PM robinrohan has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 179 of 204 (337530)
08-02-2006 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 7:11 PM


Re: touchy
How do you explain the very similar numbers between the two populations?
quote:
83 and 76? Quite a few more "Christians" in prison, I'd say.
I never thought I'd have to gice a stats/math lesson to a teacher, but there's a first for everything, I suppose.
Do you notice anything about the relative similarity between the proportions of the two groups in prison and the two groups in the general population?
These two numbers are pretty similar:
Prison population-Christian: 83.761%
General population-Christian:76.5%
..and these two numbers are pretty similar:
Prison population-Atheist:0.21%
General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them)
Why might we see this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:11 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 180 of 204 (337531)
08-02-2006 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by robinrohan
08-02-2006 7:18 PM


Re: touchy
quote:
Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have low morals, but we don't need a survey to figure that out.
But we DO need a survey to know if Atheists and Agnostics "fill the prisons" just as much as believers do.
When we look at the data, we see that they do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:18 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 7:24 PM nator has replied

  
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