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Author Topic:   Philosophy of Ideas
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 44 (305924)
04-22-2006 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by John Galt
04-22-2006 12:13 PM


Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
First of all, so its easier on me in the future, could you explain how I quote what you have written so that my replies are easier to understand?

I quoted that as:

[qs]First of all, so its easier on me in the future, could you explain how I quote what you have written so that my replies are easier to understand?[/qs]

When you are composing a reply, to the left of the area where you are typing there is a notation "dBCodes On (help)". If you click on that "help" it will open a window with the various codes available.


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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 30 by John Galt, posted 04-22-2006 12:13 PM John Galt has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 32 by John Galt, posted 04-22-2006 6:15 PM AdminNWR has not yet responded
     Message 33 by John Galt, posted 04-22-2006 6:16 PM AdminNWR has not yet responded

      
    John Galt
    Inactive Junior Member


    Message 32 of 44 (306000)
    04-22-2006 6:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 31 by AdminNWR
    04-22-2006 12:47 PM


    Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
    [qs]When you are composing a reply, to the left of the area where you are typing there is a notation "dBCodes On (help)". If you click on that "help" it will open a window with the various codes available.[qs]

    testing, testing, 1,2,3


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by AdminNWR, posted 04-22-2006 12:47 PM AdminNWR has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 34 by AdminNosy, posted 04-22-2006 8:47 PM John Galt has not yet responded

      
    John Galt
    Inactive Junior Member


    Message 33 of 44 (306002)
    04-22-2006 6:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 31 by AdminNWR
    04-22-2006 12:47 PM


    Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
    When you are composing a reply, to the left of the area where you are typing there is a notation "dBCodes On (help)". If you click on that "help" it will open a window with the various codes available.

    thanx!


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by AdminNWR, posted 04-22-2006 12:47 PM AdminNWR has not yet responded

      
    AdminNosy
    Administrator
    Posts: 4754
    From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Joined: 11-11-2003


    Message 34 of 44 (306021)
    04-22-2006 8:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 32 by John Galt
    04-22-2006 6:15 PM


    quoting
    you left the / off the closing qs. Edit that in and you are there.

    BTW, in testing you can type something up and preview it to see if it worked. In the above case the mistake would be marked in red. You can then not submit the test and not clutter up threads with them.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by John Galt, posted 04-22-2006 6:15 PM John Galt has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11574
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 35 of 44 (306025)
    04-22-2006 9:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 30 by John Galt
    04-22-2006 12:13 PM


    Peek-a-boo
    John Galt writes:

    First of all, so its easier on me in the future, could you explain how I quote what you have written so that my replies are easier to understand?

    Yes. See the button called PEEK? press peek and see the raw text that I created.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 30 by John Galt, posted 04-22-2006 12:13 PM John Galt has not yet responded

      
    Malachi-II
    Member (Idle past 4218 days)
    Posts: 139
    From: Sussex, England
    Joined: 04-10-2006


    Message 36 of 44 (307856)
    04-30-2006 5:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
    04-20-2006 9:37 AM


    Re: An a-priori type of guy
    Good morning, Phat. I empathize with your comments. I believe one's experience of God reveals more than words about God.

    May I, as briefly as possible, recount a personal experience.

    My father was a heavy drinker. Often violent. One day, when ten or eleven, I ran for my life. Had I not he would have killed me. I cycled as fast and far as I could and flopped into tall, parched grass on a hillside. My mind searched for what I had done to make my father hate me enough to want to kill me; what should I do; how can I creep back into the house to get some clothing; and where could I go? I was gripped by fear and confusion. Suddenly I felt something gentle and warm on my chest. It went into my body and seemed to caress my heart. I heard a tender, strong voice in my head say, “You belong to me. I will never leave you.”

    I sat bolt upright. No one was there. I laid back in puzzlement, then realized my fears had gone. I went home. Father was at the table with a bottle and glass in each hand. He ignored me. Life went on.

    Fast forward. Many years later. A major city. I began a career in a glamorous profession. So many opportunities! I was rapidly sinking into a quagmire of harmful activities prompted by conscious relaxation of moral standards. For the first time since it happened the childhood experience came to mind. I made a conscious decision to alter my attitudes and actions. Changes were far from instantaneous. But that’s another story.

    Nothing in the above account either proves or disproves the concept of God. The voice did not identify itself. Somehow that didn’t seem to matter. What mattered was that I was free from fear – until I realized how low I had allowed myself to sink.

    I more or less concluded that I had a guardian angel (I believe every human being has one. Whether we believe it or not is a matter of personal choice.)

    I can vouch for the ultimate benefit in my life and relationships from believing in and accepting the evidence of the presence of my guardian angel. I require no further proof.

    I turned away from orthodox beliefs when I found them to be elitist and, often, hypocritical and protectionist institutions operating in their own understanding and belief in God. Fine for many. Not for myself.

    At my weakest point I picked up my Bible. It fell open at Chapter 14 of John’s Gospel. Verse 12 leapt off the page. Then Verse 26. I had never heard those words read from any pulpit. I have yet to find any lie spoken by Jesus. Without forming any judgement, I have yet to find any man, including myself, who does not or has never lied.

    So, whether or not my boyhood experience was an hallucination, a malfunction of the brain, or easily explained neurological nonevent, sufficient evidence for me exists in how I conduct my life and thoughts.

    © 2006, Malachi II


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by Phat, posted 04-20-2006 9:37 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 37 by iano, posted 05-02-2006 10:07 AM Malachi-II has responded
     Message 38 by Phat, posted 05-02-2006 10:32 AM Malachi-II has responded

        
    iano
    Member
    Posts: 6165
    From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
    Joined: 07-27-2005


    Message 37 of 44 (308444)
    05-02-2006 10:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 36 by Malachi-II
    04-30-2006 5:36 AM


    Re: An a-priori type of guy
    Suddenly I felt something gentle and warm on my chest. It went into my body and seemed to caress my heart.

    Been there, missed the point, went off into the abyss for 10 years until he called again. This time for good.

    So, whether or not my boyhood experience was an hallucination, a malfunction of the brain, or easily explained neurological nonevent, sufficient evidence for me exists in how I conduct my life and thoughts.

    "You know because you know in your knower" I presume. All the proof that is necessary.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 36 by Malachi-II, posted 04-30-2006 5:36 AM Malachi-II has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 40 by Malachi-II, posted 05-02-2006 11:17 AM iano has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11574
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 38 of 44 (308449)
    05-02-2006 10:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 36 by Malachi-II
    04-30-2006 5:36 AM


    Faith comes from Experience
    Malachi II writes:

    I believe one's experience of God reveals more than words about God.

    Words can only say so much, but they can't convey the reality of feeling! Your story is very touching!
    Malachi II writes:

    I more or less concluded that I had a guardian angel (I believe every human being has one. Whether we believe it or not is a matter of personal choice.)
    I can vouch for the ultimate benefit in my life and relationships from believing in and accepting the evidence of the presence of my guardian angel. I require no further proof.
    I turned away from orthodox beliefs when I found them to be elitist and, often, hypocritical and protectionist institutions operating in their own understanding and belief in God. Fine for many. Not for myself.

    I have had similar experiences regarding a touch from a supernatural or otherwise unexplainable source. Whether it was God or one of Gods messengers does not affect the reality of the experience.
    Malachi II writes:

    At my weakest point I picked up my Bible. It fell open at Chapter 14 of John’s Gospel. Verse 12 leapt off the page. Then Verse 26. I had never heard those words read from any pulpit.

    John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
    John 14:26-But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    Wow! I once was bicycling at 10,000 feet and was dying for energy. I softly called out "Daddy" and felt a peace come over me. This was before I "officially" got saved....and I knew in my heart that the Daddy I was talking to was not my earthly father (long since deceased.)

    Malachi II writes:

    I have yet to find any lie spoken by Jesus.

    Many try and discredit Him, yet His words ring true for eternity!
    Malachi II writes:

    I have yet to find any man, including myself, who does not or has never lied.

    Yes...it shows that we are not gods or even a part of god. We can but be in communion with God...but we ain't Him!
    Malachi II writes:

    So, whether or not my boyhood experience was an hallucination, a malfunction of the brain, or easily explained neurological nonevent, sufficient evidence for me exists in how I conduct my life and thoughts.

    A great story! :)
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 36 by Malachi-II, posted 04-30-2006 5:36 AM Malachi-II has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 39 by Malachi-II, posted 05-02-2006 11:16 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Malachi-II
    Member (Idle past 4218 days)
    Posts: 139
    From: Sussex, England
    Joined: 04-10-2006


    Message 39 of 44 (308468)
    05-02-2006 11:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
    05-02-2006 10:32 AM


    Re: Faith comes from Experience
    Thank you. :)
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 38 by Phat, posted 05-02-2006 10:32 AM Phat has not yet responded

        
    Malachi-II
    Member (Idle past 4218 days)
    Posts: 139
    From: Sussex, England
    Joined: 04-10-2006


    Message 40 of 44 (308469)
    05-02-2006 11:17 AM
    Reply to: Message 37 by iano
    05-02-2006 10:07 AM


    Re: An a-priori type of guy
    Right on!! :)
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 37 by iano, posted 05-02-2006 10:07 AM iano has not yet responded

        
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11574
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 41 of 44 (844582)
    12-02-2018 12:36 PM


    What Is Evidence?
    I was looking online to get deeper in regards to the need for evidence and how it relates to philosophy. I found this:

    What Is Evidence? A Philosophical Perspective

    I will be discussing this more after I fully read it.

    His basic conclusion is this:

    quote:
    Evidence is something that is
    produced by deliberate, conscious, institutionalized human activity. It is the result of choice,
    and like any choice, it is therefore driven by values. We do it this way. We could also do it
    that way. The different choices would be underpinned by different values, which we have to
    talk about explicitly and agree to and accept within a democratic context rather than have
    them play themselves out behind our backs as I think they all too often do today.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Replies to this message:
     Message 42 by Straggler, posted 12-02-2018 5:52 PM Phat has responded

      
    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10267
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006
    Member Rating: 2.2


    (2)
    Message 42 of 44 (844615)
    12-02-2018 5:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
    12-02-2018 12:36 PM


    Re: What Is Evidence?
    Epistemology. The philosophy of how we know things, how we can acquire knowledge. It basically comes down to what methods of knowledge acquisition are reliable and which arent and how we determine that.

    The use of evidence leads to conclusions that can be demonstrated as correct and which themselves lead to more evidence and discoveries of new phenomena. An interwoven web of interrelated knowledge is constructed over time. That is our experience over the course of human history and shapes that which qualifies as evidence along with the best ways to utilise it.

    The reason I would not deem patterns in tea leaves (for example) as evidence is because reading patterns in tea leaves has no demonstrable success at telling us anything correct. If tea leaf prophets started consistently predicting events successfully and accurately I would have to reconsider my position on this. But as things stand if a tea leaf reader told me I was going to die next week Id be pretty unworried because its clearly just unevidenced bollocks.

    Likewise if a tea leaf reader told me that their readings indicated the existence of an unknowable unseeable omnipotent being sitting outside of time Id be similarly unimpressed and dismissive of their claims. For the same reason as above. Its unevidenced bollocks no mattter how convinced the tea leaf reader is of their readings.

    So what evidence are you claiming here and why should we treat it any more or less dismissively than tea leaf reading (for example)?

    Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 41 by Phat, posted 12-02-2018 12:36 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 43 by Phat, posted 12-04-2018 2:53 AM Straggler has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11574
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 43 of 44 (844686)
    12-04-2018 2:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 42 by Straggler
    12-02-2018 5:52 PM


    Re: What Is Evidence?
    So what evidence are you claiming here and why should we treat it any more or less dismissively than tea leaf reading (for example)?
    I'm not sure I have any objective evidence. I have only subjective personal experiences...none recently, mind you--that initially convince me of a probability greater than tea leaf readings.

    I really don't require evidence before I further commit to belief. I am aware that even if God exists and somehow wants communion with me (and you and Peggy Sue) he still won't run my life nor fix all of my problems.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 42 by Straggler, posted 12-02-2018 5:52 PM Straggler has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by Straggler, posted 12-04-2018 4:28 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10267
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 44 of 44 (844692)
    12-04-2018 4:28 AM
    Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
    12-04-2018 2:53 AM


    Re: What Is Evidence?
    You call it evidence in a post called What is evidenced in a thread about philosophy. You really need to explain what you mean by evidence and why these experiences you cite qualify as such in a way tea leaf patterns or sheeps entrails or drug induced visions or any of the multitude of other things humans have cited throughout the ages as ways of knowing, do not? Or would you accept those things as evidence too?

    A) What are these experiences? Can you be more explicit? Visions, voices, feelings?

    B) Is there anything else you believe in the existence of external to your own mind based on this same form of evidence? Or is it only God?

    C) Are these experiences demonstrably superior to tea leaf readings as a form of evidence? Or is that just your personal conviction?

    Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
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