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Author Topic:   A Christian State.
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 13 of 65 (303516)
04-12-2006 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
04-12-2006 11:10 AM


Re: These questions have been asked before.
lols. did she reply?

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 15 of 65 (303523)
04-12-2006 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
04-12-2006 9:23 AM


um. luther was a driving force in european anti-semitism.
yeah. the reformation was AWESOME.
and as to your later mayflower discussion...
"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."
it reads like a preamble. notice the 'grace of god' junk absent from the constitution:
we the people of the united states in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this constitution for the united states.
the mayflower compact was nothing more than another example of contract society. the people wrote a contract that could be amended 'from time to time' which they swore to follow and then ratified by signature. there lies the similarities. the mayflower compact has more to do with the declaration of independence which has NOTHING and a bag of chips to do with the constitution. have you read this before or do you just quote other people? cause. really. i mean. i have the preamble memorized. it's one sentence. the mayflower is little more and unboundingly insignificant. this is nonsense on stilts. you wanna read something that influenced the constitution?
an essay concerning human understanding
two tretises on government
and while you're at it
the social contract
that should clear some things up for you.
and don't start with "oh well locke was a christian". yes, and he was a good scottish presbyterian who kept his beliefs out of his politics. yes, he wrote on religion. but not in conjunction with his politics. totally separate. as should be the state.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 25 of 65 (303585)
04-12-2006 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
04-12-2006 2:46 PM


christianity demands either a theocratic monarch or a patriarchal commune secluded from society.
it is incompatible with modern government and a true christian state would be a nightmare of human rights violations.
just because we're lucky enough to have had a few christians in history who didn't have their head stuck in rectal positions and supported religious freedom does not mean a christian state would be a safe and healthy one.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-12-2006 03:51 PM

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 46 of 65 (303959)
04-13-2006 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ThingsChange
04-13-2006 9:50 AM


Re: Fundamentalist State not as bad as you think
i personally thing a christian stae would be indistinguishable from and islamist state
1. Sexual businesses (such as topless bars, bath spas, internet porn, etc.) would be banned, or at least "suffocated" (example: cannot be located within 100 miles of a school or church or a public place)
not to mention that people found to be committing adultery would be jailed. did i mention adultery includes premarital sex?
2. Illegal drugs would be more suppressed and penalties stiffer, although there probably would be more preventative programs and help for people to break their habit.
i think your ideas of treatment programs under a christian system are inaccurate. christians are notorious for being against all manner of prevention programs.
3. Alcohol and bars would be more restricted, but not banned. There would be stronger consequences for drunks, though.
if the baptists were in control, alcohol would be banned.
4. Some Sunday activites might be discouraged with laws, so that there would be more incentive to go to church. (in my case, I would take the opportunity to sleep late)
nothing like restricting the right to do honest work for a whole day.
5. TV and movies would be restricted more.
censorship is the greatest evil.
6. The Hollywood rich and corporate over-paid executives would probably be limited in compensation and taxed more heavily.
*cough*bullshit*cough* you do know who the leaders of the christian right are and how much money they make and for whom they support taxes? if you think a christian society would be more equitable, you are sadly mistaken. remember. god rewards the righteous with earthly blessings.
7. The strategy for helping the poor probably would shift towards more temporary welfare along with programs to help people get off their feet and support themselves (i.e. the old "teach a man to fish" philosophy)
see above. the poor are that way because they did something wrong.
8. Education would incorporate Creationism as the truth, and an ignorant portrayal of Evolution. Prayer would be re-introduced. Teachers would be given more power to discipline (I am not sure if spanking would be allowed, though).
that's not really so bad... WTF ARE YOU KIDDING?
9. Advancement in science would suffer indirectly (from uninspiring education and policy like banning stem cell research)
mmmm dark ages. yeah. pray and your pms will go away.
10. Gay rights would not be established, but gays would not be imprisoned.
um. god hates fags ring a bell? they'd be fucking executed. (or executed for fucking.)
11. The establishment of religion clause would be struck, so that "separation of church and state" would no longer be a legal issue.
clearly.
12. Oh yes, I almost forgot, abortion would be outlawed.
it's getting that way now. whatever. there's always sweden.
i'd rather not live in a religious state, thanks. but then again the arabs invented zero in spite of christian fears of arithmetic being "magic"... i think i'd rather live under an ottoman state.

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