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Author Topic:   The Authoritarians
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 8 of 14 (613870)
04-28-2011 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Minnemooseus
04-28-2011 3:17 AM


Re: John Dean - Conservatives without Conscience
It would have been nice to have had Barry Goldwater as a co-author. Would the current version of the right-wing accuse him of not being a "real conservative"? Maybe they'd declare him to be a liberal.
I think Goldwater was a great example of a "classical liberal."
From Wiki:
Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.
This is in opposition to social conservatives, who believe in few of these ideals and would love to see their particular brand of religion mandated by the state.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add link.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-28-2011 3:17 AM Minnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 04-28-2011 11:24 AM Coyote has replied
 Message 11 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-12-2011 12:07 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 10 of 14 (613877)
04-28-2011 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
04-28-2011 11:24 AM


Re: John Dean - Conservatives without Conscience
Beats me. Don't know much about them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 04-28-2011 11:24 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 12 of 14 (615327)
05-12-2011 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Minnemooseus
05-12-2011 12:07 AM


Re: Barry Goldwater was a liberal? Compared to what?
Are you not referring to a 19th century political philosophy that was adopted by mainstream modern conservatives (including Barry Goldwater)?
Yes.
Are not today's social conservatives some mutant (neo-conservative???) niche that has strayed from "true conservatism"?
I do not consider the modern "social conservatives" to be conservatives at all.
They are the ones that want government to keep out of the peoples personal business, except where they want government to intrude into peoples personal business [added--to enforce their particular religious beliefs].
Exactly.
The ones who might think of Barry Goldwater as being a liberal?
Barry Goldwater was a "classical liberal" (see Wiki description below). Today's social conservatives probably see him as being a (modern) liberal. Just another thing they are wrong about.
Are you one of them?
A social conservative? Not hardly. Wash your mouth out with soap!
wiki writes:
Classical liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.
Classical liberalism developed in the 19th century in Western Europe, and the Americas. Although classical liberalism built on ideas that had already developed by the end of the 18th century, it advocated a specific kind of society, government and public policy required as a result of the Industrial Revolution and urbanization.[2] Notable individuals who have contributed to classical liberalism include Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo.[3] It drew on the economics of Adam Smith, a psychological understanding of individual liberty, natural law and utilitarianism, and a belief in progress. Classical liberals established political parties that were called "liberal", although in the United States classical liberalism came to dominate both existing major political parties.[1] There was a revival of interest in classical liberalism in the 20th century led by Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.[4]
In the late 19th century, classical liberalism developed into neo-classical liberalism, which argued for government to be as small as possible in order to allow the exercise of individual freedom. In its most extreme form, it advocated Social Darwinism. Libertarianism is a modern form of neo-classical liberalism.[5]
The term classical liberalism was applied in retrospect to distinguish earlier 19th-century liberalism from the newer social liberalism.[6] The phrase classical liberalism is also sometimes used to refer to all forms of liberalism before the 20th century, and some conservatives and libertarians use the term classical liberalism to describe their belief in the primacy of economic freedom and minimal government. It is not always clear which meaning is intended.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-12-2011 12:07 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-13-2011 4:33 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 14 of 14 (615463)
05-13-2011 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Adequate
05-13-2011 4:33 AM


Re: Barry Goldwater was a liberal? Compared to what?
Some quotations from Goldwater on the "religious right"...
And he was correct, wasn't he?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-13-2011 4:33 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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