Lying For Jesus Award

Because we're talking about a religious identity, not a national one.That's the critical difference, and you're just glossing over it. That's great, but I never have done that. Only in the sense that a criminal with a gun is more dangerous than a criminal with a knife. The mentality isn't different. And let's not forget that, prior to 9/11, the most devastating, lethal terrorist attack on United States soil was committed by a fundamentalist Christian.Your guys still shoot plenty of abortion doctors and drive car bombs into Planned Parenthood. Don't go sizing yourself for a new halo just yet, my friend.

Hi Hoot Mon. I have to agree with you with the exception that Phelps is clearly not a Biblical fundie. His church is essentially a radical family cultish outfit masquerading as being representitives of the Baptist denominations. He has 13 children, 3 who have reputed him and the rest having law degrees supportive of him. These children have had this hatred instilled into them since youth. Phelps also teaches that the only real Jews are Christians, totally out of line with the fundamentals of both the Old Testament and the New. His family of lawyers, contrary to Biblical fundamentals does meanspirited and very unkind and evil acts of disrupting funerals of the families of soldiers and gays who are there to mourn the loss of their loved ones, threatening with frivolous lawsuits et al when Jesus advocated just the opposite, to love ones enemies and do good to them. There's a time for lawsuits but certainly not in this setting and in this vein.Falwell who publically preaches on the sin of sodomy as well as heterosexual sin, on the contrary has said many times publically to "hate the sin and love the sinner." He reaches out to help gays having a sideline ministry for that purpose to treat them kindly and attempt to change them as I understand. I believe he also has a ministry for women prostitutes who want help. That's the Biblical fundie way. One who is Biblical does not need to condone sin, but as Jesus and the apostles taught, sinner or not, do to others as one would have others do to you.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Loves them by condemning them, opposing allowing them basic human rights and calling down the wrath of God on them.LOL Kindly attempt to change them. LOLSo he is an idiot as well as being a bigot, liar and hate monger.Neither he nor you has ANY business worrying about anyones sins but your own.Other peoples sins are NONE of your business.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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A Fundamentalist (upper case) is a sect of Christians who believe in the literal translation of the Bible, hence the emphasis on the "fundamentals" of Christianity.

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Supporting a literal translation of the Bible automatically means that they embrace ignorance? Even in the event that they are ignorant, how can ignorance be as nearly pernicious a thing as people who want to detonate a nuclear explosive so as to incur maximum casualties? Secondly, a literal interpretation doesn't make necessarily any one ignorant, it means they share a different view than you do. And what do you propose to mitigate this global threat you have concocted? And you would know this how? Why do you think people who believe in a literal translation of the Bible, which I myself maintain, invoke some sort of "con?" What are they conning for? And how deeply do you think this pervades society and how many literalists can you indict in this sweeping allegation?

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

because fundamentalism disallows things from changing whether good or bad and i've never heard of any fundamentalism that is remotely supportive of learning or new thought, after all it wouldn't be fundamentalism, would it?if you teach only one way of looking at something and never look into another that might be more truthful that, is willful ignorence i agree with jar it is a cult of ignorance, also it is purely anti-intellecualistic if fundies believed a pure literalist view, they would believe trees have kings, the earth stood on pillars and jesus drew a sword from his mouth, but no they consider somethings metaphor, and only things they dislike at that they are conning themselves and other people into believing things that are not in the bible and beliefs that aren't shown to be true.
they believe parts they want and discard the parts they don't and change the meanings of the words they want so it reflects a belief that the text doesn't have

Time for a new subtitle people. Try to make them appropriate to the content of your post."You are still misrepresenting what I say, as usual." has worn out it usefullness.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you

Yes. Of course. Because a Nuclear Bomb does not threaten the continued existence of the Nation or humanity. It is horrific but such destruction has happened many times before and Nations have continued.A Democratic Republic though cannot stand if the electorate is Ignorant.The terrorist threatens lives, Ignorance threatens the very existence of the US and ultimately mankind. Sorry, simply not true.It is a FACT that there has never been a world-wide flood.If someone thinks that there was a world-wide flood they are ignorant. Education and honesty. to which NJ replied:

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And you would know this how?

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Because many parts of the Bible are mutually exclusive. Genesis 1 for example contradicts Genesis 2. Yet the Literalists go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to pretend there is no contradictions. 100% of the Biblical Literalists con. Most just con themselves. Almost ALL Biblical Literalist Televangelists are conning for the money.I had already answered that question, and you even quoted my answer. Here it is again:

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why? Is this key in respect to the gays (goats) a witness to the church (sheep) as a warning of the judgment of God is in accordance to truth to them that commit such things. Jerry is using the goats as a witness to the sheep and not the other way because we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that commit such things. Is not this that bothers you that Jerry is using the (gays) goats as a witness to the sheep and you want Jerry to consider you a sheep and not the goat. Jerry is witnessing to those goats that are really sheep in goats clothing so they can shed their goats reprobate clothing and be forgiven. Its like the prodical son coming back with a repentant heart and because of the change of heart the Father welcoming him back, etc...P.S. I'm not a pastor so you might need anointing of oil, laying on of hands, repentant heart if your serious about shedding your goatness, etc...If you don't think of yourself as a goat well were instructed to let the filthy be filthy still and the Lord will judge every man by his works , etc... kjv revelation 22:11-12.kjv romans 2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is "according to truth" against them that "commit" such things.Edited by Charley, : No reason given.Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

Don't worry whatever. The Goats will not be Gays, but rather Christians just like you, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson; some Christians like Ron Wyatt will likely get a pass just because they are crazy and so not responsible for their actions.Read Matthew 25 again.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Buzsaw writes:
If you go back I asked that you apprise us as to what lies Falwell was telling. I'm still waiting for the specifics on that. I did include that statement in my response to jar in #247 where I asked what constituted a threat of violence in the quote. That Pat sees God as allowing catastrophy in response to national sins poses no threat of violence by Pat or his organization. Imo, it's the love of God and country that prompts people like Pat to tell it like he sees it knowing it is not going to make him popular. What do you expect him to do? Wimp out as so many do as a spokesman for God's words and fail to warn the nation of what he considers to be drawing God's wrath upon our nation? 1. I said there are issues with Falwell which I have. You seem to be missing and fail to refute my point that nothing you or Jar have come up with constitute violence or lying on the part of Falwell.2. You appear to have missed my point that I reserved judgement on Hovind until the verdict was out. I did not offer a cross the board defense. It's out and I stated that he did likely deserve some punishment though imo, it was quite harsh compared to the average tax evader punishment if indeed it offered no chance of parole. My total college was a year and a half at Bob Jones University back in the early 1950s. At chapel we got plenty of sound warnings about such healer evangelists as Oral Roberts, et al. In most churches I've been warnings have been sufficiently effective concerning these con artist clerics. They are not Biblical fundies as some here consistently fail to acknowledge. The Biblical NT instruction for miraculous healing is spelled out in James five where the sick are instructed to call the elders of the local church. Roberts and others are out there calling the sick to them for profit. Imo, most of the mainline churches err in that they don't even allow for the James 5 healing in their churches. That's beside the point however. Suffice to sum up that the true Biblical fundie mainline churches do warn about and condemn the conduct of people like Roberts. I beg to differ. I see debate, splits and such going on all the time in the fundie churches and in politics for the very purpose of policing/contending with evil and falsehoods. As my pastor puts it, "let iron sharpen iron." I don't know about your church, but plenty of this debate goes on in most of the ones I've attended. Note also the split in the Episcopal denomination over the gay issue. Is not this some of what is similar to what science does regarding policing/debating the issues as to what is true and false, or in religion what is right or wrong, i.e. Biblical or non-Biblical, i.e. exploitive or non-exploitive et al? As per Percy and Jar's perspective of what constitutes truth or as per Buzsaw and NJ's perspective? I don't see all of what you claim as truth. I see it as false. Nevertheless, I certainly don't believe you are a liar nor would I ever suggest such a thing. I see you as mistaken as you do me on many issues we debate. Why can't you and Jar be a little less judgemental with people like Falwell in this regard and instead acknowledge the good work people like him do?Percy, I watch and respect both Billy Graham and Shuler. However it's these folks who are so quiet on controversial people and issues. On the one hand you criticize the ones who speak up on the controversial people/issues and on the other hand you praise the ones who don't.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Jerry Falwell uses the Authorized KJV perhaps your problem with goats is your reading from the satanic owned NIV bible version where goats are sheep and not goats. Its diabolical to make that what is not natural as if it is, etc...---------------------------------------Do you really believe God would ALLOW His HOLY word to be "owned" by that group? ". . .for what fellowship hath RIGHTEOUSNESS with UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? and what communion hath light with darkness?"2 Cor. 6:14Do you actually believe God would ALLOW His Holy Word to published by the same ungodly people who publish the Satanic Bible?NIV Exposed!If you are using a NIV, you need to toss it into your garbage pail and beg God to forgive you for using a Satan-inspired counterfeit bible.What Do the NIV, Satan, and Gay Sex Have in Common?

Then if that's true, what is Jar so worried about concerning the Religious Right? If there is no difference between Muslim or Christian fundamentalists, as he's stated, then there should be no worries. Let me supply you with a very reasonable scenario. Iran, whose government maintains some very serious ideologically extreme views, is hard at work to get a hold of their very first nuke. Iran supplies and smuggles in weapons for the resistance in Iraq to tie up coalition troops. Meanwhile, agents of Iran smuggle in a small, portable nuclear device in the hands of suicide bomber. Since the objective is to incur maximum damage and casualties, there is no moral dilemma in the mind of the terrorist. Innocent men, women, children-- even people who agree with and protect their ideology in the US is fair game. This device is planted in a major city like NYC, LA, Boston, Miami, San Fransisco, etc and detonated. The blast decimates a radius of 100 square miles, killing every one in that immediate area. The electromagnetic pulse from the blast disables a much larger area, 1,000 square miles which render anything electric utterly useless. Since, like suckling babies, the United States is completely reliant on the age of technology, and contemporary cars, computers, televisions, radios, planes, ATM's, etc, rely heavily on such technology, the bomb blast will wreak utter chaos and totally cripple a large portion of the United States.Aid to the victims is hampered and bodies will rot in the streets, people will begin to loot for food because now that refrigerators don't work all the food will spoil at a rapid rate. Lawlessness will ensue and no one in the affected area will be working, thus sending the entire country in to a deep recession which directly effects the world economy.While some people are more concerned with the endangered North American lousewort, and Jar concerned about people in cheap suits with bad comb overs professing the name of Jesus, rational people are most concerned with more realistic and expedient concerns-- namely, Islamic extremism. You guys? Fringe lunatics who hypocritically murder in the name of murder is not inclusive to me or any one that I know, anymore than Muslim extremists can encapsulate all of Islam.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Huh? It seems like that would give us a lot to be worried about - that there's a major movement of American citizens to dismantle the Constitutional protections that stand in the way of their vision of the United States of Jesusland. You've laid out a fun imaginary scenario. Now let me tell you what the facts are:There was one country involved, more than any other, in the attacks of 9/11 - Saudi Arabia. There's only one country in the Middle East with any sort of capability and propensity towards supplying anti-American terrorist groups with nuclear weapons - Pakistan.Do you find it maybe just a little weird that the most overtly Christian administration has chosen to ally itself with those two countries, to attack nations that posed absolutely no threat to us whatsoever?Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons to smuggle. There is a danger - because the Bush administration has done more to sabotage our efforts in interdiction than any terrorist could.Do you know what Valerie Plame did at the CIA before Dick Cheney had her cover blown in retribution? She infiltrated arms networks to keep weapons out of the hands of terrorists. But for all you claim to be concerned about the prospect of a nuclear detonation in New York, conservatives are doing more, much more, to make that a reality than any terrorist ever could. Oh really? That doesn't seem to stop you from defending them, or downplaying the threat they represent. Of course, I don't see how this is on topic at all.

I already pointed out im message 214 of this thread where Falwell lied. Here are some more from http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/Falwell/falwell3.html

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August 1980: After Southern Baptist Convention President Bailey Smith tells a Dallas
Religious Right gathering that “God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew,” Falwell gives a similar view. “I do not believe,” he told reporters, “that God answers the prayer of any unredeemed Gentile or Jew.” After a meeting with an American Jewish Committee rabbi, he changed course, telling an interviewer on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that “God hears the
prayers of all persons . .God hears everything.”

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July 1984: Falwell is forced to pay gay activist Jerry Sloan $5,000 after losing a court battle. During a TV debate in Sacramento, Falwell denied calling the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches “brute beasts” and “a vile and Satanic system” that will “one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven.” When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. Sloan did so, Falwell refused to pay and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.

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There are yet more examples. How many do you require before you will admit that Falwell has lied in the past?

OMG jar, you are thickheaded. How many times have I said in this thread alone that we need to speak out against these people?
But tell me, why should I think that your way is any better than those crazy Tvangilists.