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Author Topic:   Defining Unconditional love
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 1 of 104 (447419)
01-09-2008 8:48 AM


I believe that the Jesus' story shows the criteria of unconditional love> For example, there is no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend, love thine enemies, forgive them for they know not what they do and more.
The practising of unconditional love can been a burden and wonder if it is at all possible to truly love unconditionally, taking the word as literally meaning : without condition? This translates into being without judgment and putting the recipients well being and feelings first at all times.
Can unconditional love be defined in any other way?

Replies to this message:
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 Message 7 by Taz, posted 01-11-2008 12:32 PM pelican has replied
 Message 11 by SGT Snorkel, posted 01-11-2008 3:28 PM pelican has replied
 Message 53 by ThreeDogs, posted 01-14-2008 9:30 AM pelican has replied
 Message 98 by pelican, posted 01-27-2008 8:40 PM pelican has replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 104 (447721)
01-10-2008 3:52 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 3 of 104 (447832)
01-11-2008 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
01-10-2008 3:52 PM


I see unconditional love as dangerous. The outcome cannot be predicted.
Edited by dameeva, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 4 of 104 (447896)
01-11-2008 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by pelican
01-11-2008 3:04 AM


when he's talking about unconditional love, he's not talking about blindly following a leader. the two topics have nothing to do with each other. it's not even the same topic.
unconditional love refers to how one treats another person not what you do with your weekends.

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ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 5850 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 5 of 104 (447902)
01-11-2008 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pelican
01-09-2008 8:48 AM


quote:
I believe that the Jesus' story shows the criteria of unconditional love> For example, there is no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend, love thine enemies, forgive them for they know not what they do and more.
The practising of unconditional love can been a burden and wonder if it is at all possible to truly love unconditionally, taking the word as literally meaning : without condition? This translates into being without judgment and putting the recipients well being and feelings first at all times.
In a love relationship with anyone, do the lovers expect something in return? Does Jesus? Or does He show the lengths He has gone to receive love in return?
Putting the well-being of a lover before one's own, is common sense, or the lover will soon find someone else who does meet the requirements in the relationship.
Platonic love, on the other hand, is not what Jesus practices, nor do true lovers in a lovers' relationship.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 6 of 104 (447904)
01-11-2008 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by ThreeDogs
01-11-2008 11:20 AM


what part of "love your enemy" and "love your neighbor" does not include platonic love? you know. unless you think we should be having free sex (i really doubt it.)

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 7 of 104 (447923)
01-11-2008 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pelican
01-09-2008 8:48 AM


IMHO, Jesus' supposedly sacrifice was not a demonstration of unconditional love. Let's look at the 2 words.
Love is, well, love. Unconditional... also self-explanatory. No condition is required to attain the love of the creator. In other words, you don't have to be a good person to be loved.
Would a god that shows unconditional love for his children cast the ones he doesn't like down to the eternal pit of hell? That's not unconditional love.
In other words, for me at least, unconditional love is when god decided NOT to bring me into existence so I wouldn't have to suffer for an eternity in hell. That's unconditional love.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 104 (447924)
01-11-2008 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by macaroniandcheese
01-11-2008 11:25 AM


bren writes:
unless you think we should be having free sex.
I see nothing wrong with this.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 9 of 104 (447925)
01-11-2008 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
01-11-2008 12:33 PM


i don't, really, either. but i doubt he feels the same way. however, i don't see jesus commanding us to boink osama.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 10 of 104 (447926)
01-11-2008 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
01-11-2008 12:32 PM


Would a god that shows unconditional love for his children cast the ones he doesn't like down to the eternal pit of hell? That's not unconditional love.
i'm not convinced that discussion of the modern idea of hell were contemporary to jesus.
and no, it isn't. see? biblical inconsistencies are just reserved for questions of dates.

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SGT Snorkel
Junior Member (Idle past 5703 days)
Posts: 23
From: Boone, IA USA
Joined: 07-25-2006


Message 11 of 104 (447988)
01-11-2008 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pelican
01-09-2008 8:48 AM


The practising of unconditional love can been a burden and wonder if it is at all possible to truly love unconditionally, taking the word as literally meaning : without condition? This translates into being without judgment and putting the recipients well being and feelings first at all times.
Let me have a go at this. Just remember small mind, small thoughts, so do not expect much.
Of course as humans, we cannot love unconditionally, no more than we can live a sin free life, do everything perfectly, etc. That does not mean that we cannot make it a goal and work toward it in all of our dealings with others.
One of my favorite sayings is, "Once my hero, always my hero." What that means to me is that if you become friends with me I will be your friend no matter what. I would submit that this is one definition of unconditional love.
I certainly do not get a financial gain or an increase of social stature from my friendships, nor do my friends get them from me. What they get and I get is a smile when we meet, help when needed, consolation when sad. That love can never be a burden.
Can we love unconditionally like Jesus did? Probably not. Can we do a pretty fair imitation? Yes. Is it ever a burden? I don't see how it could be.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 12 of 104 (448052)
01-11-2008 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by macaroniandcheese
01-11-2008 11:07 AM


defining love
I thought he was talking about the 'definition' of unconditional love? We all have different ideas on what it actually is and I know mine is radical. However, mine is a reasoned perception of unconditional love and worth considering, even if it doesn't agree with yours.
I am interested in the diversity of definitions, as I believe is Heinrik, although I dare say he will speak for himself.
I think it is dangerous because the outcome or the effect on self and others cannot be predicted.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 13 of 104 (448078)
01-11-2008 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ThreeDogs
01-11-2008 11:20 AM


recieving or giving?
Are speaking from the reciever's point of view? I think you may be describing how it would [or should] feel to be loved unconditionally?
I understand your reasoning of why a lover would leave if not loved unconditionally, but is the lover returning the unconditional love?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to be loved unconditionally in return?

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 14 of 104 (448081)
01-11-2008 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
01-11-2008 12:32 PM


Don't have to be good to be loved?
In theory I agree with you but in reality it doesn't work like that. "Bad" people are not loved unconditionally. I don't know about god but many don't feel loved unconditionally by the god they believe in, as you seem to indicate. You may believe you are deserving and I think you are too. However, many feel undeserving and many think others are undeserving.
Does unconditional love contain no pain and no suffering? Isn't it part of the true nature of unconditional love to hurt sometimes in either the giving or recieving?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 01-11-2008 11:12 PM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 15 of 104 (448091)
01-11-2008 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by SGT Snorkel
01-11-2008 3:28 PM


loving unconditionally no matter what
I agree with the definition you give in this example of loving a friend unconditionally, no matter what. However, what if the 'no matter what' was hurting you? Would you still be able to help and support your friend, as this definition of unconditional love would require you to do so?
I tried for a long time with a partner. I forgave and understood but after 26yrs, I could not do it any longer. I didn't blame my partner and my partner no way wanted me to leave. Neither did I, but it was destroying me. I had to walk to save myself. This is why I believe loving another unconditionally can be a burden. Do I still love this person unconditionally? Obviously not. I don't want this person in my life again without a radical change in their behaviour. Sorry but true.
I wonder if Jesus did love unconditionally no matter what? Did he 'not accept' some and 'accepted' others? He hand picked his immediate followers, all male may I add. Doesn't unconditional love contain equality and no favouritism? Just a thought.

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Replies to this message:
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