Fully 100% American vs divided allegiance

Aside from the fact that those holidays - as observed by the general population - pay as much or more homage to pagan rites dealing with solstices and equinoxes (and fertility rites under the light of a full moon) and thus that many cultures also have festivities at roughly the same time ...Aside form the fact that December 25th has nothing to do with the life of christ that I am aware of (the actual birth dates possible range from late march to early april in -4 to -7 IIRC) and that this has slipped from the actual date of the solstice due to calendar error in the dark ages ...Don't you think that it is unconstitutional to tell a businessman that he can't open his store on day {X} because it is someone elses religious holiday, on a day that has no special meaning for the businessman?Don't you think that it is unconstitutional for (IIRC it was KMart) a business to fire an employee that refused to work on Sunday when the worker is a devout Christian who believes that it is against their faith to work on Sunday and who made that know when hired (this was in fundamentalist haven West Michigan where many are Dutch Reform)?Simple yes or no will suffice.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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I don't think there are any laws that state a business must be closed for Christmas, is there?On the issue of whether a business has a right to fire someone for not working on Sundays, I am not sure to be honest. I think it's wrong, but I am not sure it is unConstitutional. I do think it is illegal based on anti-discrimination laws.This message has been edited by randman, 12-05-2005 06:31 PM

The first sentence agrees with you, or do you have a problem with that?Property tax exemption is not a blue law, but it favors established religions by providing protection (police and fire) that others are required to pay for.Of course we could also agree that such protection need not be provided as they {should have} other resources? Wonder if Pat Robertson would agree?

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

RAZD, once again you are confusing the meaning of the first amendment. The first amendment is not anti-religion, as you think. It is pro-religion.The reason it is fine to provide government services to religious groups is because the government is permitted to support religion in general, but is not permitted to take sides in religion. The government is to be non-sectarian, and since they provide equal services for fire, police, or whatever, without discriminating one group against the other, it is fully Constitutional.You have to wrap your head around the fact that the government is designed to be non-sectarian, not anti-religious, nor secular in the way you interpret that by your posts here.

Then why did they pick sunday? Why not just a law that says you can only be open 6 days a week and let the businesses decide which days they want to be open? That allows a Christian to pick sunday, a Jew to pick saturday, a Muslim to pick friday and a freethinker to pick Wednesday.

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

propert tax exemption is for all non- and not-for-profit organizations. not all of these are religious.

Doesn't answer the question (which is not necessarily about Christmas - it is hypothetical). yes or no? Doesn't answer the question. yes or no? Does it or does it not infringe on the free expression of religion on the part of the worker?

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Not all religions are exempted or granted non-profit tax free status. Is that discrimination?

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

it is illegal for companies to fire a worker who was hired under the knowledge that they would not work certain days due to religious conflict.

non-profit status is awarded to organizations whose main purpose is educational, charitable, or scientific. thus, universities, churches, schools, and goodwill type dealies are exempt. this is because churches tend to participate in many charitable activities. if a religious organization does not meet these standards, it doesn't qualify. it's not based on what religion it is.

ROFLOL. Where you come up with these concepts of what others think is truly beyond me. You have no clue.It is neither anti- NOR pro- religion ... it is necessarily NEUTRAL. Secular. The issue is one of funding, really. Notice that Madison, Mason and Jefferson were against the public funding of a teacher of christianity in Virginia for explicitly and specifically reasons based on the separation of church and state as they saw it. Is it different to fund the protection of a religious building with public money?You can argue that all religions are treated equally, but then you also need to be able to automatically include atheist organisations (such as the American Atheists organisation) and anything that calls itself a religion (and not just organizations like the Union of Reason and Spirituality, the Deist Alliance and the Deist World Union, but some really off the wall stuffs - of course scientology qualifies though eh?) ... a real can of worms if you ask me ... or you start playing the discrimination card.Enjoy

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

That was actually considered. Some car dealerships argued for that. But the influence peddlars insisted that it had to be the same day of the week for everyone, lest some upstart deal takes advantage of the day they are closed.I don't doubt that some of these dealers had religious reasons for preferring Sunday to say Tuesday. But I think you would have a tough case demonstrating that a law was unconstitutional if they picked Sunday but okay for any other day.

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So religious values are OK when you agree with them, such as when MLK, jr used his position as a minister and Sunday services to advance civil rights, but it's not OK when you disagree with them, maybe on something like pro-life advocates?

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Oy veh!
Values are a good thing. The concept needs not be modified by religious.
Aside from Christians, all kinds of people have values.

It does not infringe on the free exercise of the worker, but it may be illegal due to religious discrimination laws. Sorry bud, but that's me answer, and not interested in playing yes/no games with you.

I don't know where you get your info, but to my knowledge all atheist organizations are treated equally with religious ones. They have city sewer, police, fire, just like everybody else.