Right wing conservatives are evil? Well, I have evidence that they are.

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As a Christian you should try to show others truth, there you showed others hate. Remember the Christ man!

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*cheers and applauds*

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although I don't think it is a good thing to be a homosexual, its not natural,

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Sure it is.Does it happen in nature? Yes? Then it's natural.

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and takes away the chance to meet a life-companion meant for you.

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Uh, lots of gay folk have found a life companion.

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I believe humans are set apart from nature, we are something more.

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Uh, I don't understand this.We aren't part of nature according to you?That's silly. Anyone can see that we are warm-blooded vertebrate placental mammals. We also have almost identical DNA to Chimpanzees.Are chimps a little bit less "set apart" or something?Do you think we aren't subject to the laws of physics, either?If you think that homosexuality is wrong because your religion teaches that it is wrong, that's one thing, but to say it is "unnatural" just isn't true.It happens in nature, and that makes it 100% natural.Just because you think some behavior is icky doesn't make it unnatural.

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This is a main reason why I can't accept darwin's ideas as truth. Although adaptation is there.

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Don't you think that the strength of the evidence found in nature, rather than your desire for what you wish the world was like, should determine what your view of reality is?

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As in man and woman. These life companions are very different.

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They are?How so?

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Murder or killing happens in nature. Murder happens among human animals. Does "natural" mean that an act is right?

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No.Where did I say that it was?

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Scraff, would you agree with me that evil within humanity exists?

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I think that sometimes people do things to hurt each other and themselves horribly, and are coldly selfish, and have very poor emotional self-control, and I also think that some people have an impaired or nonexistent ability to empathise with their fellow humans, and we call those people sociopaths.But "evil"? No, I don't think that people are "evil". I think people are people, and calling people "evil", or blaming their antisocial behavior upon "evil" is just a way to separate ourselves from those "other people".

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Is it natural?

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Yep.

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I think that this speculation on conservatives, and liberals is trivial and ridiculous, these classes seperate our country, at times when unity is needed.

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I really don't think that the party that has been in power for the last 4 1/2 uears is particularly interested in unifying the country.That much is abundantly clear.They've basically told anyone who doesn't just roll over and go along with everything they say to F%&K OFF.

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Step out of the physical realm, humans are all there is.

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What on earth is that supposed to mean?

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Humans are designed to be male with female, isn't it obvious?

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For much of the population, yes.But homosexuality occurs in much of nature, including in humans, so that makes it natural.If your religion teaches that homosexuality is wrong, that's one thing, but to say it's unnatural just isn't true.

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1. Evidence is interpretive.

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Absolutely.If one takes into account all of the evidence, what does one come up with WRT evolution?

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2. Reality is what I choose to make of it.

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Actually, reality is there regardless of what you think it is or want it to be.The scientific method is the best way we know of to get as close as we can to the truth of reality about the natural world.If you reject the ToE, you are rejecting many other fields of science which corroborate the ToE.

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Because of this I can say that I am apart from the animal kingdom, on a spiritual, and mental basis.

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No, you are part of nature. It doesn't matter what you think, I'm afraid.You may ALSO have a spiritual basis, you might not. Mentally, however, you are very much an animal.

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To other animals we are far beyond. We can reason. Homosexuality doesn't seem reasonable, it just doesn't make sense.

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Did you use reason to decide what your sexual orientation is?

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I used reason to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is nonsense, almost fully based on immediate gratification, or false inklings of what one thinks love is.

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That's not an answer to my question.My question was: "Did you use reason to decide what your sexual orientation is?The answer to that question would be a "yes" or a "no".

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That's what many people would like me to believe, unfortunately for them and yourself, I can reason,

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So can other animals.And how does being able to reason make you not part of nature?

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and type up this letter to you on this device called a computer, designed by humans.

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You can use a tool.So can lots of other animals.

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What is natural is sometimes thought of what is a normalcy,

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...which is how you are treating the word.But that's due to your religious view.

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or of regular occurence. In this case it's rare.

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So, even if it's rare, it's natural, correct?

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Seeking out truth through experience of the outside world is 1up on the scientific method.

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What?"Experience of the outside world" is EXACTLY what science is all about.

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Existentialism, through what I do, that is my reality.

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No, that's just a philosophy that is all inside your own head.

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And this is why everything that I do matters, contrary to other animal's robot like functions.

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Why do you think animals function like robots?OTOH, why do you think that much of your function isn't automatic?

Phat, what does one's political leanings (liberal or conservative) have to do with if one views homosexuality positively or negatively?

Lam specifically said that he wanted to puke at the idea of being with a girl, which I took to mean, having sex with.

I don't think that you were out of line WRT the forum guidelines, no.I think you are wrong, but that's what the debate was about, after all.

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O yeah, tell your cat to send me an e-mail, could use some insight on his feelings about the meaning of life.

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Jokes aside, you have to be joking to actually argue this stuff.

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But you didn't answer my wuestion.How does being able to reason or use tools make you not part of nature?

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Really, how do you know?

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Why else would you view homosexuality as a very negative, unnatural thing that nobody should do or be, rather than something natural and normal that some people do and are?Also, you didn't answer this question from my post:

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or of regular occurence. In this case it's rare.

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Do you apply the scientific method when seeking out meaning and truth in this life?

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Meaning? No, not really. Meaning is something that comes from within, distilled from my culture education, ideas, and experiences.When seeking truth (with a small 't') about the natural world, I most certainly do use the scientific method, yes. It's the best way to learn the most while making the fewest errors. Now, if you are talking about Truth (with a big 'T'), then that is philosophy, and has little to do with nature. At least, it is not emperical; you can have any philosophy you want and it doesn't have to be based in reality, be logical, or testable.

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So, you don't think that what actions I do matter? That what I do makes a difference, and effects the rest of the world no matter the size? Though what one does, life, reality as we know it changes, for them and us.

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Sure what you do matters to the natural world, but not why you do them.The Tiger doesn't care why you destroy his habitat, all that matters is that he doesn't have a place to live and hunt and breed, so he dies.

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What they do has less meaning, it sort of becomes tasks performed again and again, with less variation than the actions of humans, although humans sort of develop routines and become working robots themselves, what goes on is not only the task at hand.

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So, when my cat rubs against me and taps at my hand with his paw, and doesn't stop until I pet him, is he being a robot? Does that desire for me to pet him have less meaning that an infant wanting his paren't touch? Why or why not?We have been selected by our environment to have great big brains that are capable of very complicated abstract thought, and also the means to communicate our thoughts to others.What about the human ability to think in complex ways makes us not part of nature?

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What makes you want to see other animals as equals?

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What makes you want to view all other life forms as inferior, rather than just different?

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That can't be true, they can be fun, and helpers,

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...and competitors, and preditors, and disease vectors.

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but beyond that they are more a part of nature, that we simply cannot be apart of.

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Why not?Why do you think that because we have these big brains which have allowed us to develop all of this technology to make our lives more comfortable that we are not also part of nature?

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We are outside of it, and have built barriers, although it leaks through and remains still very much a part of us, we are still seperated.

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Prophex, what does every living thing on Earth have to do to live?

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What does OTOH mean?

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On The Other Hand.

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Sorry, Schraf, if I offended you.

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No, not at all. Makes no difference to me.

bump.A reply to message #200 would be uch appreciated.

What data do you have regarding the prevalence of non-death penalty violent crime, and also overall crime rates during the same period?