On this day, let us all be proud of America

Um, you mean those terrorists who killed all of 3,000 people on our soil? Come off it man. We were a bigger threat to the native americans that these terrorists are to us, you know, by wiping out 95% of the native population.The British killed more americans in the revolution and war of 1812 than terrorism has.Terrorism is not a formidable stealth threat. Stealth threat, yes. But I think Israel and Ireland have/had more to worry about than we ever did/do.Seriously, if you don't feed terrorism, it dies out in a couple of generations. Terrorist movements are unsustainable.

Hi kuresu,

quote:

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He wouldn't, because you're British (or at least, currently living in the UK).

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Unfortunately though, there are probably quite a few would-be bombers in the UK. I wonder if Buz would be in favour of.. er.. extraordinarily rendering them.

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I agree that the US health-care system is a disgrace. Every time I hear about its numerous failings I am saddened, then angry. It's simply beyond my comprehension. I owe my life to the National Health Service, at least twice over, so I am puzzled as to why anyone would be against a system that provides health care for all, free at the point of use. I'm also puzzled as to why Americans don't kick up more of a fuss about this.I don't have an enormous amount of faith in Obama's promises of reform. He is not going to go far enough, and however modest his ambitions, he is going to have to fight the health insurance lobby all the way.Still, it is encouraging to see this problem being addressed, instead of being swept under the carpet yet again.

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Oh Buz,

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1. No enemy nation on earth has been treated their prisoners as civilly as America treats our prisoners and that includes the terrorist slippery stealth fanatics who we are dealing with in the current unique War on Terror.

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I take exception to that. Here in the UK we charge those we suspect of criminal acts. They get legal representation. We then put them on trial. They get full access to the system of jurisprudence that everyone gets in the UK, as part of their universal human rights.Even outside of Gitmo, the US prison system does not compare favourably with other Western nations, especially when it comes to civility. Putting someone with the mental age of a child on Death Row is very far from civil.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Pulling it out your ass again Buz? Simply not true Buz. Cite your sources if you want to prove me wrong.
My own country, Denmark, has had trouble with terror too you know.. do you know what we did? Charged them, and gave them a fair trial. BS. The US is not facing anything extraordinary.
Cite your sources. What? Cite your sources. I have family in intelligence service, they tell me a different story.Edited by rbp, : No reason given.Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

Whereas responding to acts of terrorism with massively disproportionate military force that kills civilians and unjustified imprisonment and poor treatment of suspected terrorists who are never even charged with a crime in violation of your own laws actually works as a recruitment tool for terrorist groups.The human rights abuses we committed at Gitmo and elsewhere, and the chaos and death we initiated in Iraq have literally caused more people to resort to joining terrorist organizations. Honestly, what do you expect to happen when you blow up someone's house in a bombing run, killing his family? Do you think he's going to embrace you as a liberator, or pick up a gun, strap a bomb to his chest, and try to take out as many of those who killed his family as he can?The best way to defeat terrorism is to provide humanitarian aid in areas of civil unrest and improve the education of the population. It's truly ironic that this would be the "Christian" response of turning the other cheek and loving your enemy, and yet Christians like Buz vehemently oppose what his own deity clearly supported.We've literally played directly into the hands of terrorists for the past 7 years be reacting out of irrational terror.

Hi Rahvin,Good words, I wish I said that. Oh look, I kinda did:Message 195 of 215
01-27-2009 10:08 AMI naively thought Americans would have universely learned these "self-evident" lessons after 9/11. But I guess the reptilian core took hold instead. Fear and cowardice was further exploited by the immoral simpleton in office. Thus, with Buzz's and other American's support of the Bush Administration, America has greatly increased terrorism in the world. Unfortunately I don't predict Obama's foreign policy to change much.

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Cogito, ergo Deus non est

Hi dronester.I didn't see your post - sometimes when I have a lot of catching up to do in a thread I miss one or two. I'm not sure of your reason for sarcasm, though - you'll find on this board that we frequently wind up repeating each other (and even ourselves) frequently as we debate various topics. It's an inevitable result of some posters agreeing and having opponents who don't always comprehend what's already been said.But now that you've repeated yourself...I'm glad that we agree that the policies embraced thus far in combating terrorism don't work. But I'm going to disagree with your prediction that Obama's foreign policy won't change much.Shutting down Gitmo and our "secret" prisons, halting torture and restoring the rule of law is a massive blow to terrorist recruitment. But a larger point will be the drawdown of troops in Iraq along with Obama's continued efforts to engage states like Iran in constructive, respectful dialog instead of acting like a patronizing global cop. If he follows through on what he's been saying, he'll be taking the only effective course to fighting terrorism as a whole: improving the standards of living of people who are willing to accept our aid, and stopping the destructive cycle of exaggerated response. We won't ever see terrorism disappear entirely, but we can drastically reduce the number of individuals who actively desire the destruction of America.Not much can be done for those terrorists who don't have a specific issue with the West and just want a global Islamic state ruled by Sharia law, but they're a relatively small minority of Muslims even inside of terrorist organizations, just as those who want literal Biblical law enforced by government are a tiny minority of Christians.I expect Obama's foreign policy to have significant results. I don't expect it to happen over night, but I'm looking forward to seeing how global opinion on the US changes over the next 2-4 years, especially (but not exclusively) in the Middle East.Only time will tell, but I'm sure we're all hoping for the best. Except Buz and his end-times buddies, who hope for an apocalyptic showdown in the Holy Land triggering Armageddon. But they're sociopathic and crazy

Maybe because I and your president respect the rule of law.

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soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Hey Rahvin,No sarcasm was intended, just playful teasing. I should've used a smiley emoticon. Sorry about that. Your words are pleasant music, you are most welcome to repeat or enhance my words anytime! : )Yes, I agree your points about Obama's policies being a step in the right direction. IF,IF they are not just talk. However, actions speak louder . . .1. Contempt for our constitution/law: Obama voted FOR illegal wire tapping giving retro-immunity to phone companies and Bush. As a law professor this was inexcusable. My support died for him on this issue.2. He supported and funded the Iraqi war even after evidence was shown that the war was based on lies.3. Nominating H. Clinton for SOS. She never read the 2002 National Intelligence report before voting for her Iraqi war invasion authorization. She supported and funded the Iraqi war even after evidence was shown that the war was based on lies. She has threatened Iran's 70 million people with nuclear annihilation, a war crime. She has stated her unwavering alliance to Israeli's oppression against Palestinians.4. Obama's unwavering support of Israeli's oppression against Palestinians. Though Obama spoke publicly against other Bush policies during Bush's last days, Obama remained silent during Israel's recent Gaza invasion (over a thousand murdered, a third were children: collective punishment is a war crime). Moreover, Obama doesn't truly seek a Israel/Palestine peace solution. The Arab League initiative calls for a two state settlement. It has a long standing international consensus even among Hamas. Obama's first press conference deliberately omitted this crucial part.5. Continues Bush Policy of sovereignty violation. 1/22/09, US spy plane kills 15 in Pakastan despite government's repeated objections.6. During Obama's first week, has talks with Afghans' Karzai. Karzai demands the US timetable withdrawal. Obama ignores the plea.7. Appointing special US representative to Pakistan and Afghanistan, Richard Holbrooke. During atrocities in eastern Timor in the 70s, Holbrooke evaded to stop the US support for them.Rahvin, because of the above examples, I may not be as optimistic as you. But I do hope you are correct.regards

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Cogito, ergo Deus non est

Sorry.
I voted for Eldridge Cleaver in 1968.

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- xongsmith

And perhaps the reason "kool-aid" took off so well in the vernacular at the time of the Jonestown Massacre was due to Mr. Wolfe's very popular 1968 account of Ken Kesey & the Merry Pranksters, published under the title of "The Electric Acid Kool-Aid Test". "Are you ready to take the electric acid kool-aid test?" read the sign at most of their events, encouraging folks to try acid.In any case, this time the derogatory term "Obamabot koolaid drinkers" and such are just more childish ploys by many of those unable to accept that, indeed, on this January 20th, the United States had once again a reason to feel a sense of pride. It looks like the Age Of Celebrating The Stupid might be ending.

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- xongsmith

Welcome to the fray xongsmith. way to go bro.Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Ah buz, was is not is. Until the Botch misAdministration decided to chuck civilized and moral behavior and become as bad as the terrorists. Whose existence depends on the repression, marginalization and isolation of people. By this definition troops in Iraq are terrorists, when they are attacking civilians. Information coerced by torture does not produce useful information. Curiously prisoners have been injured and killed. Their purpose is to provide information for the President and the Pentagon to use, and this only within the bounds of the constitution and international law, or they are not defending "America" (but you likely don't get that distinction, give the number of times it has been pointed out).Enjoy

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Do you ever reply to a post with facts? Not propaganda, mindless rhetoric or just plain gibberish.

Whatever shortcomings you may believe that poster, or his posts, may have - your reply has plenty of shortcomings of its own. Please avoid these kinds of posts - at best they do nothing, at worst it ends in a downward spiral of negative and certainly off-topic posts.Also, please do not reply to this post.