Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread)

Jar, I suggest that if you wish to address the evils of Christianity in the world relative to Christ's message and what is considered blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you open a thread on that topic. It is not the topic of this thread.Abe: If you wish to dispute this admin action please take it to the Moderation forum. Thanks. Edited by AdminBuzsaw, : No reason given.

So - one of your sources has said things which are demonstratably false, but you still trust them because they share the same biases as you...or 'The way they report it is the way I see it.'No problem.

I'm sorry, what is demonstrably false? I stop reading after a while and probably missed it.

The bit where they said 'Annan refuses to do x', which is not true since Annan does not refuse to do it all. Annan has condemned anti-Israel terrorism on a number of occasions.

So the truth is that I disagreed with you about the supposed "demonstrated proof."Sure, literally sometimes he puts the words together that seem to say he condemns anti-Israel terrorism, as so many do, but it's just lip service. All the media do the same, dutifully mouthing the words from time to time, same as everybody here does too. But in practical reality, terrorism is put on an equal footing with Israel's defensive position, treated as a legitimate cause. Sympathy is in their direction, not Israel's, and it is Israel that is far and away the one preponderantly rebuked by the UN for its defensive actions.What condemning anti-Israel terrorism would REALLY look like would be proclaiming it in believable tones, calling on the world to condemn it, and backing it up with threats that are followed up with action. If they did that honestly, the list of UN rebukes of the terrorists would at least equal the list for Israel, because for every rebuke of Israel there is a terrorist action -- or a dozen of them -- that provoked the rebuked action by Israel but went unrebuked itself.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The difference between Hezbollah and Hamas etc and Israel, is that Israel is a member state of the UN. If Annan condemns Israel's actions more it is because they should be held to higher standards than murdering terrorists.That said, the JVL were clearly not telling the whole truth. Their obvious bias meant that they omitted material facts about the situation and said something which is basically false. Annan does condemn terrorism - just because he condemns members of the UN more does not change the fact that he condemns terrorism.To use your own opinion on his sincerity is called bias. Just because you don't believe him does not mean that he does not condemn them. SourceElsewhere on the site: elsewhere You don't have to believe him, you can think him insincere, but that doesn't mean that you should report as fact that he has not condemned terrorism even when it is against Israel.

The insincerity is obvious in the actions. You interpret them differently because of YOUR bias. What you are calling a "material fact" is nothing but empty words. But again that's my bias. And again, the only right thing to do is STOP THE TERRORISM, and that is not happening. All that is happening is that the only nations TRYING to stop the terrorism are being condemned for it.

Another piece of pure bias that I believe to be the truth. FrontPageMagazine.com | August 1, 2006By Alan M. Dershowitz
Sunday was a day of great triumph for Hezbollah

quote:

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Sunday was a day of great triumph for Hezbollah. Its tactics had worked. By launching rockets at Israeli civilians within yards of a building filled with refugees, Hezbollah had induced Israel to make a terrible mistake. Its defensive rocket had missed the Hezbollah launchers and hit the civilian building. That was Hezbollah’s plan all along. As Israelis wept in grief over the deaths of the Lebanese children, Hezbollah leaders celebrated its propaganda victory.

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Yes, Hezbollah was happy that an Israeli rocket had killed Lebanese children. The children were now in paradise, martyrs to Hezbollah’s cause. Israel was being condemned throughout the world for “killing” children”“massacre” was the most common word used in the Arab media. The Israelis apologized, but that was not enough to put out the flames of anger or to quiet the shrill calls for revenge.

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Israel produced evidence proving that it was largely Hezbollah’s fault. Hezbollah was using Lebanese children as involuntary human shields”surely a war crime. Hezbollah was preventing civilians”who had been repeatedly warned by Israel to leave the battle zone”from moving out of harm’s way. Hezbollah sympathizers were shown on TV defiantly tearing up the Israeli leaflets, as if to say “we’re staying” Hezbollah had refused to build bomb shelters for ordinary civilians”only for their own leaders. Hezbollah knew (and Israel didn’t) that children were in the so-called safe house. That is why it deliberately used the safe house as a shield behind which to five rockets at Israel. Hezbollah used its rocket launchers as “bait” to induce Israel to fire at them in order to increase the chances that Israel’s rocket would misfire and hit the “safe house”. It was a perfect plan. Leaders of Hezbollah knew it could count on the international community to finish its dirty work by condemning Israel, rather than Hezbollah for the deaths caused deliberately by Hezbollah. Israel has, of course, rightly apologized for the deaths caused by its rocket. Hezbollah never apologizes for deliberately causing civilian deaths, except when the deaths are of Arab children, as was the case in Nazareth.

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Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

well.. there you have it folks, forget diplomacy, forget Human rights, what we need is thousands of prayer-ninjas, working under "prayer cover" (?)You are right faith, they will be butchered, bombed, and become victims of friendly fire. For the 'Prayer cover' you speak of will be as useful as a choclate teapot.I am becoming more and more convinced that you are a troll... or perhaps an evo spouting pure lunacy in order to provoke debate.ABE: I have to ask... why "Especially America"?Edited by Creavolution, : No reason given.

If, while attempting to kill these MUDEROUS CRIMINALS, you inadvertently kill 60 or so innocent women and children, is it still a righteous act?Is there an acceptable number of innocent people you can kill, as long as you were aiming at the bad guys?

Another totally biased piece, by a Christian Lebanese woman Lebanese Diversity on the LineBy Brigitte Gabriel
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 1, 2006

quote:

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While the world's attention is focused on westerners fleeing to Cyprus and the many Hezbollah civilians fleeing to Syria, another group of Lebanese people worldwide are counting the days until they will be going back to their homes in Lebanon and reunite with their families. These are the thousands of Lebanese Christian refugees who fled Lebanon before, during and after the civil war.

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The most recent wave of refugees fearing slaughter by Hezbollah came in 2000 with the Israeli withdrawal from south Lebanon. With Israel's help, many moved on throughout the world while over one thousand remained in Israel. Most are ready to go back to their homes, which many left with only the shirts on their backs.

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These Lebanese originally came under attack from radical Islamic and PLO elements in Lebanon in 1975 and asked Israel for help. Living in what became "the Israeli security zone" in 1978, they and Israel held off the Palestinians, radical Islamists, and later Hezbollah for 18 years from attacking Christians and shelling northern Israel.

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In June 2000, under daily causalities and mounting popular pressure, the IDF set a withdrawal date. As the date drew near, the security of IDF forces began to be compromised as the loyalty of allied Lebanese began to waver as they wondered about their fate after the Israelis left. The IDF departed suddenly with its closest Christian allies right behind them.

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For the Christians in Israel who tell me of their hearts' desire, I can only use fictitious names for fear of their relatives living in Lebanon being killed by Hezbollah. Everyone knows everyone in South Lebanon. George, a Christian Lebanese refugee in Haifa, says, "I can't wait for Israel to go in. I want to go back to my home."

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Message 278

Come on Faith, that's too easy. What's so other-worldly about denouncing violence as a solution to a problem? Or about thinking that shelling positions with children in the vicinity, no matter how the situation arose, is morally questionable, to say the least? Or about thinking that executing people is not a good way of making progress as a society? Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not kill"? As solutions go, it might indeed be better than the current war in southern Lebanon. I imagine a Lebanese father shouting to his wife and children: "Look out! Incoming prayer!" and the wife replying: "Mwah..."But anyway, if it's a solution, I'm not entirely sure what problem it's a solution to. The surplus of American Christians? The lack of suitable targets for suicide bombers? To give the flies some respite from dying like themselves? I don't want to insult anyone, but "heavy prayer cover" sounds a lot more not-of-this-world than anything I've seen in this thread so far. Besides, it's exactly that kind of thinking - the religious fundamentalist kind of thinking - which is causing the problems in the first place. Like I said, that's too easy. Anyway, if I know you a little, you're not going to stop arguing.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

So you're Israel, and you refuse to retaliate against Hezbollah, or against Hamas or any of them. You throw down your arms. What is going to happen in your very very wise and indeed prescient opinion?Actually, as soon as I said it I have to admit there was something daringly exciting about it. I only wish I didn't know what would happen.Now if they threw down their weapons and put their trust in the God of Israel, THEN something wonderful would happen. Unfortunately Israel, for all its supposed Zionist inspiration, is a secular atheist state.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You're gaining the praise of the rest of the world for your restraint, Hezbollah is going to get very bad press, they will lose the popular support of their own people, and in the end they will give up their weapons.It's happened before, it can happen again.On the other hand, if the violence continues, things might soon get out of hand and before you know it, you're looking at a full-scale war in the Middle East. Syria is joining in, next Iran, then Saudi-Arabia. Israel has nuclear weapons, who's to say they are not going to deploy them? How much damage are you going to accept in order to eradicate terrorism? And will you ever be able to completely eradicate terrorism by violent means? Israel may be able to obliterate all of its neighbours, but the world is larger than that. What about all the other muslims in the Ummah? In Indonesia and elsewhere? Do you think they'll keep quiet when they see their brethren slaughtered by Israel "and the West"? Because that's how they'll see it.Believe me, the only sensible way for the world to get out of this mess is to stop the violence and talk, talk, talk.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.