The advantage of limitations. Imagine if humans had had paranormal powers?

Just some thoughts on ‘portingTeleportation:The notion that this would negate the need to develop agriculture or fixed settlements is based on the assumption that when you teleport you also transport the items on you or being carried by you, or that you would have unlimited range and frequency. This may not be the caseAs the ability to teleport will most likely have entered the phenotype long before man invents clothes or tools. The ability to transport anything other then just the human(?) involved is unlikely to be present. So when you jump you leave anything you were wearing or holding (I’m going to assume that anything inside the body cavity and especially the contents of the digestive system will be teleported for obvious reasons, but if it didn’t then eating and then ‘porting would have important concequencesewww).Though ‘porting is an excellent mechanism for avoiding danger (if you see it coming in time) it’s not going to enhance the hunter gatherer’s efficiency save being able to speed up scouting large areas rapidly, but only if you can make unlimited jumps.You have to wonder about the energy costs required to make each jump? Can you go boing. Boing. Boing boing ad infanitum or are you able to only make 1 or 2 jumps with out serious fatigue. As we know the human has limited energy reserves so I would guess we would have a limited number of hops in us before we needed a good rest. I would also suggest that this fatigue would also play a part in limiting the range of each hop. We know it takes more energy to throw an object further, in fact the energy required is not on a linear scale .(I think) so one huge jump would knacker you far more then a series of very short hops.This limiting of distance and frequency would impart an effect on gathering food via the teleportation. Population would quickly grow and outstrip the natural food supply in the local area (out to normal foraging distances plus maximum return jump distance.) So in time despite the teleportation, humans (?) would have to quickly develop agriculture. They would have to develop agriculture more quickly than us because of their huge population growth caused by their excellent ability to avoid predation. And with agriculture comes fixed habitation.As to teleport navigation LOS (line of sight) would probably be the preferred method as WYSIWYG. But as the teleporter must have some kind of spacial positioning (for re-entry) then over time, like muscle memory, he would probably be able to remember coordinates of well visited locations. If he can visualise himself porting into a specific room in his house then that would probably be as good as seeing it.The ability to target a destination through jump memory and visualisation would probably lead these humans to be very clutter conscious and to designate empty areas that are maintained as no-go areas for other family members. Think a personal closet used as a known ‘clear space’ to jump to and from.Anyway, that my thinking on teleportation

Agreed. Infact with the ability to teleport I doubt they would ever develop clothing. In addition, telekinisis would likely mean that tools would be unlikely as well. Yup. Probably just the person and anything being held. But see, that is based on the idea of large groupings or gatherings. Since these people have no home, no territory, no particular location as a base, I doubt they would ever gather in very large groupings. They would be spread out over the whole habitable area but in low densities. And the foraging range would be virtually unlimited unless someone can suggest some reason that there really would be limits on range or frequency.Since teleportation is not the same as levitation, there is no "between" when going from point A to B, no difference in distance regardless of actual distance between A and B, I don't think that range or frequency would be limited.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

why would teleportation negate the family and tribe instincts of humans?and as a side note with telekinisis why would you need teleportation or telepathy? With telekinisis you can fly....

Actually, telekinisis is the ability to move other objects mentally.One reason for teleportation is the energy issue you mentioned. Teleportation is that you leave here and arive there. It's direct. You don't move through the intervening space. The effort to teleposrt a foot or to the otherside of the world would be the same.Telepathy is the ability to communicate mind to mind. Whole different beast. Well, what led to family and tribe?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

so what about psychokinesis then by definition that doesn’t exclude the manipulation of the self?So how does Porting work? As far as I’m aware there is no such thing as a free lunch?Could be Mary gentle’s Wonder working gene that allows those with this gene to actively collapse the reality wave front away from the globally perceived ‘reality’ to one of the individual’s wishes. In this case to be over there, or to fly or to well do anything. (Read ASH: a secret history for more) But if everyone had this gene then in short order reality would be so warped nothing would mean anything any more.Could be some thing like Greg bear’s privileged bands. If some one could instinctively mentally access this information matrix (95% of the universe is used up simply telling the other 5% what to be) then they could simply alter the positions of the particles of their body. But they could also convert any thing they liked in to antimatter or even change the rules of the universe quite probably negating it.And it cant be instantaneous as if it was your particles would travel faster then light and that’s a no-no.

I have no idea of how it works. What I'm trying to decide is what effect it would have on culture and on society.So what led to family/tribe?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

dont know, not done the reserch (yet)

sexual reproduction. Need for survival. We are social animals.lfen

Let's look at those. Need two to Tango. Let's get slightly more specific.The issue of survival, what advantage did family or tribe offer there? But if we were telepathic, with instant communication at a direct level including sensory data, could we be social even if not adjacent

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Love, Peace, and Being?
Being what?
Loving whom?
Peace is self explanatory and all inclusive. As a matter of fact, I am going to let everyone telepathically sense the rest of my reply on THIS one!

We would still have physical needs no? Human infants and children need a lot of care. Getting food would depend on the environment but might require cooperation. I think there would be a society perhaps lower density and more dispersed but definitely social interaction physically as well as telepathically.lfen

You do realize this is a discussion of hypothetical telepathy?lfen

Of course, Ifen! Is there natural telepathy?I am just speculating that if everyone knows everyone elses thoughts and feelings, will it lead to a form of an absolute consensus or will there be fractions?Religiously speaking, I am merely guiding us away from pantheism.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-24-2005 00:10 AM

Ohnhai, check out this mans ideas concerning teleportation:
http://www.research.ibm.com/...teleportation/braunstein.html
He encourages feedback...maybe we should write him and invite him to EvC. We could use fresh brains around here1

Whew, and we are grateful for that!I am btw not a pantheist. But I would let my sister marry one nevertheless. Let me ask you though, if you always agree with yourself? Let's say you have decided for whatever reason to lose 10 lbs. but as you walk by the ice cream store do you remember you've decided to no longer enjoy a double chocolate dipped french vanila cone and so in happy consensus do you walk on by, or.. like most of do would you experience a conflict? I believe there would be factions because we are factions.lfen