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Author Topic:   DHA's Wager
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 196 of 200 (196178)
04-02-2005 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Parasomnium
03-29-2005 2:37 AM


Re: Impossible unicorn
Parasomnium responds to me:
quote:
In a world without eyes, is there red?
Yes, because there is a mechanical definition of color that doesn't require eyes.
We don't see all colors that are available. That doesn't mean those colors don't exist.
quote:
I know that in a world without eyes there can still be light of a certain wavelength, so there's no need to bother with that line of argument.
But that's the answer to your question. That you don't like it doesn't make it any less the answer.
You are using a definition of "color" that requires eyes...and doing so without directly stating so. You just assumed that it required eyes. I gave you my definition of "color" and if you do not choose to accept it, then we are talking about two different things.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Parasomnium, posted 03-29-2005 2:37 AM Parasomnium has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 197 of 200 (196201)
04-02-2005 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Rrhain
04-02-2005 4:12 AM


you mistake yourself. I was not replying to you, that seems pretty pointless due to your continued equivocation.
equivocate
intr.v. equivocated, equivocating, equivocates
1. To use equivocal language intentionally.
2. To avoid making an explicit statement. See Synonyms at lie2.
equivocate
v : be deliberately ambiguous or unclear in order to mislead or withhold information [syn: beat around the bush, tergiversate, prevaricate, palter]
You refuse to answer the question and keep dancing around it with side issues.
ABSENT proof that {A} exists AND
ABSENT proof that {A} does NOT exist
What is the most logical position:
(1) YES {A} exists! OR
(2) NO {A} does NOT exist! OR
(3) I DON'T KNOW.
The answer is simple, whether you have a math degree or not.
I await your answer to the question. Anything else is equivocation.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Rrhain, posted 04-02-2005 4:12 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Rrhain, posted 04-02-2005 9:26 PM RAZD has replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 198 of 200 (196312)
04-02-2005 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by RAZD
04-02-2005 9:09 AM


RAZD responds to me:
quote:
I was not replying to you
(*chuckle*)
You say you weren't responding to me and yet the very first word in your post was my name. How very strange to mention my name when you're not referring to me.
How many times do I need to tell you my answer before you remember it?
(4) None of the above.
Until you define what {A} is, I can't say anything about it.
Not even that I don't know.
Let's follow your claim:
Absent proof that A exists or that A does not exist.
OK. We notice that A only if B. That doesn't tell us if A exists or not so we are still in the realm of your premise.
We then notice that ~B. This, too, in and of itself, is not proof of the existence or nonexistence of A.
But the two of them together, however, indicate that A does not exist:
A only if B.
~B.
Therefore, ~A.
Note, this doesn't quite follow the other way. That is, given (A only if B) and B does not necessarily mean that we have A. For example, an object can be a square only if it is a rectangle. That an object is a rectangle does not mean it is a square though if an object is not a rectangle, then it cannot be a square.
Instead, we use direct implication:
A if B.
B.
Therefore, A.
And again, even though we don't have any proof of the existence or nonexistence of A in the first two statements, the two of them combined tell us that A does exist.
There are other logical constructions we can create such that we arrive at an unknown state. I've already given an example:
A only if B.
B.
Well, we don't know about A at this point because the existence of B does not guarantee the existence of A.
But notice, this only works when we have some sort of definition of what A is. And that is my original claim:
Until you define what {A} is, I can't say anything about it.
Not even that I don't know.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2005 9:09 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2005 9:58 PM Rrhain has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 199 of 200 (196317)
04-02-2005 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Rrhain
04-02-2005 9:26 PM


this is past silly.
equivocate
intr.v. equivocated, equivocating, equivocates
1. To use equivocal language intentionally.
2. To avoid making an explicit statement. See Synonyms at lie2.
equivocate
v : be deliberately ambiguous or unclear in order to mislead or withhold information [syn: beat around the bush, tergiversate, prevaricate, palter]
You refuse to answer the question and keep dancing around it with side issues.
ABSENT proof that {A} exists AND
ABSENT proof that {A} does NOT exist
What is the most logical position:
(1) YES {A} exists! OR
(2) NO {A} does NOT exist! OR
(3) I DON'T KNOW.
The answer is simple, whether you have a math degree or not.
I await your answer to the question. Anything else is equivocation.
Enjoy.
{added yellow for emPHASis}
This message has been edited by RAZD, 04*02*2005 10:00 PM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Rrhain, posted 04-02-2005 9:26 PM Rrhain has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3976
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 200 of 200 (196321)
04-02-2005 11:01 PM


Terminal topic drift - closing down
Perhaps RAZD and Rrhain would like a "Great Debate"?
Why do I think Rrhain is a lawyer?
Adminnemooseus

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