God has a sense of humor

steve responds to Lam:

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Because I said I see God, not goblins.

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And the difference between your god and goblins is what, precisely?By this logic, you believe in Zeus. After all, there are people who look everywhere and see him.And yet, I'm sure you don't believe in Zeus. So if you refuse to believe someone who believes a different god is everywhere, why should anybody believe in you and yours?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

And yet, I'm sure you don't believe in Zeus. So if you refuse to believe someone who believes a different god is everywhere, why should anybody believe in you and yours?If I said that I rubbed a banana on my head and it changed my life, would you go do it? Hopefully your answer is no.Now, what if I and millions of other people told you that Jesus changed our lives? The only way you could know if we were telling the truth would be to experience Him for yourself.By my logic there are not such things as goblins, which means if some told me they saw them every where I would think they are crazy.But by my logic too, God is reflected in people, so that's not crazy.Several monkeys discussing the theory of evolution. theres a rumor that man descended from our noble race. Can’t be — we don’t build fences around vegetables and fruit trees and keep other monkeys from the food and even let the extra go to waste, we don’t like spoiled fruit juices but the humans drink that and it makes some of them act silly, and we don’t use guns and knives to take other monkeys lives — it is true that man must have descended but not from us!

What about demons? devils? angels?

Yep, they're real supernatural beings.

Just like the forest gnomes.

steve Well,I suppose if one is gullible they will believe anything.If I said I found Jesus and that he was the one true way but the previous year I was just as convinced that it was wood sprites who actually ran the world from within our minds and were only able to be guessed at from dreams that dealt with strange symbols that appeared whenever one dreamt of wooded areas would you believe me then?

no, because that's like saying this is all fake and nothing is really happening. There's no proof to support it, there's plenty of proof for Jesus.John Stuart Mill said that the historocity of Jesus is indisputable.That would lead us to the legend, liar, lunatic or truth arguement.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!Now that really is funny.Look, it's fine to say you believe there was someone named Jesus, I know that I do. But let's not go overboard and into areas where you have NO evidence.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I for one am convinced that the person of Jesus really did exist - maybe under a different name, perhaps - but: That's only if you assume that the Bible is an accurate recounting of Jesus's life. If you're willing to countenance the idea that most of the stuff in the Bible didn't happen, it makes a lot more sense.C.S. Lewis looks at Jesus's claim that he's the son of God and concludes either lunatic, liar, or savior. I simply conclude that he made no such claim.

steve Bully for J.S.M.! And his evidence to back up his claim would be?

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We are made in the image of God.

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I would assume that you are getting this from the bible. How do you know the bible is true and/or the word of god? If you say that it is because you believe in god then you have some circular reasoning working against you. Where did you jump in: seeing god in everyone or believing?

Actually, it refers to slime mold. Everything else was later.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

steve responds to me:

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And yet, I'm sure you don't believe in Zeus. So if you refuse to believe someone who believes a different god is everywhere, why should anybody believe in you and yours?

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If I said that I rubbed a banana on my head and it changed my life, would you go do it? Hopefully your answer is no.

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Get used to disappointment. My answer is, "By your logic, I should."You see, your argument is that because you found enlightenment in a particular book, that is sufficient evidence to claim that enlightenment actually comes from that book (and if you're being extreme about it, it comes from only that book.)You don't think you came to Jesus all on your own, do you?

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Now, what if I and millions of other people told you that Jesus changed our lives?

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I would wonder why all those people knew who Jesus was.Don't you find it odd that the only people who claim that Jesus changed their lives were people who knew who Jesus was in the first place?I'd be much more impressed to find an enclave of natives in the jungle who had never had contact with the outside who knew who Jesus was.You don't think you came to Jesus all on your own, do you?

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By my logic there are not such things as goblins, which means if some told me they saw them every where I would think they are crazy.

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And this doesn't apply to you for what reason, specifically? For most of the world, there is no such thing as this Christian god of yours so the fact that you say you see it everywhere would, by your logic, lead them to think that you're crazy.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

steve writes:

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John Stuart Mill said that the historocity of Jesus is indisputable.

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And yet, it is.Are you saying it is impossible for John Stuart Mill to be wrong?

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That would lead us to the legend, liar, lunatic or truth arguement.

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There's another option:Mistaken.A person can be real, not lying, not crazy, and still not the truth. Take a look at any study into eye-witness testimony and how amazingly unreliable it is. The witness did see something, sincerely believes what he saw actually happened, is not deluded, but is still simply wrong.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Rrhain-My understanding is that Stevo left the forum and vowed never to return again - don't hold your breath for a reply...