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Author Topic:   Was the destruction of the twin towers scientifically possible on 9/11
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 151 (416957)
08-18-2007 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
08-18-2007 8:18 PM


It was the Masons. Probably the Jesuits helped.

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 08-18-2007 8:18 PM Percy has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 151 (417126)
08-19-2007 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by lost-apathy
08-19-2007 3:16 PM


The explanation the government gave is obviously flawed.
What is the cause of the flaws? Incompetence?
From the NIST site:
quote:
Some 200 technical experts”including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia”reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.
How could so many investigators from different places come to the same flawed conclusions? I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm just asking why so many people reached agreement on what is being claimed to be a flawed conclusion, especially seeing that the conclusion is so flawed that a bunch of people figured it out just by looking at video tapes.
Why do you find the, er, alternate conclusion plausible?

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by lost-apathy, posted 08-19-2007 3:16 PM lost-apathy has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 151 (417136)
08-19-2007 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by lost-apathy
08-19-2007 4:43 PM


If it was the government, we need to come to a realization that our government is killing our own people.
Actually, if anyone was involved in a controlled demolition of the towers, government or not, we need evidence. Transcripts of communications. Witnesses to meetings. The actual people who planted the explosives.
And evidence that people were actually in the buildings, actually planting explosives. And planting them in the correct places. I imagine that there are professional maintenance people regularly on duty. Are there any records of people mucking about the infrastructure during the weeks before 9/11?
We also need motives. Motives to blow up two very large buildings filled with people that couldn't be accomplished by doing something on a very much smaller scale. Motives to blow up two very large buildings filled with people despite the consequences of being caught.
Thinking rationally, we need to figure out the timing of the planes. Planes actually did fly into the buildings at this time. Coincidence? Were the terrorists in on the plot? Did "the government" know of the attacks, including the exact timing, and were able to prepare to take advantage of this?
If there is no evidence that anyone actually did any of this, then I wonder if even Tazmanian Devil would agree that we have a conspiracy theory going on.
-
Now lets think about this problem we have rationally.
Okay. But there is a difference between thinking rationally about a problem and just making stuff up. Here, we seem to have a case of people making stuff up.

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by lost-apathy, posted 08-19-2007 4:43 PM lost-apathy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 08-19-2007 5:34 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 151 (417141)
08-19-2007 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taz
08-19-2007 5:34 PM


Heh. Just a joke, Taz. I actually agreed with your post, there, at least as an initial stand on an issue.
But I get a feeling that we're about to go into some familiar territory....

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

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 Message 24 by Taz, posted 08-19-2007 5:34 PM Taz has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 151 (417361)
08-20-2007 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Jaderis
08-20-2007 1:08 AM


Concocting massive conspiracy theories distracts many people from the implications of what is really happening all around them.
Not only that, but the credibility of these other implications are diminished in the minds of many by nonsense such as this.

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Jaderis, posted 08-20-2007 1:08 AM Jaderis has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 151 (417458)
08-21-2007 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by lost-apathy
08-21-2007 2:10 AM


Re: The Nature of Conspiracy Theorists
There are three main media's in america. Fox, cnn, and nbc. All of them are huge coporrations that are influenced by money and the government.
Not just the mainstream media, either. The press on the left also hasn't has much to say about this.
The Nation, a liberal weekly, and Monthly Review, a Marxist monthly don't have much to say about this "controlled demolition". I've also checked Democracy Now! and Znet, as well as Alexander Cockburn's Counter Punch. All of these are very critical of the Bush administration, and have discussed illicit activities and conspiracies before, many quite serious. Yet none of these publications have taken this issue and run with it. In fact, several of these publications have published opinions and articles criticizing this conspiracy theory.

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by lost-apathy, posted 08-21-2007 2:10 AM lost-apathy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-21-2007 9:07 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 151 (417571)
08-23-2007 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by lost-apathy
08-21-2007 7:22 PM


Re: Omg
I ask for evidence...
And what evidence do you have? Some guy somewhere saw puffs of smoke in a video, and you can't see how falling debris will make a building collapse.
-
...all you people give me is oh it couldn't have happened because too many people would have to be in on it.
Sure. We're trying to be scientific here. Hypothesis-prediction-observation.
Hypothesis: The WTC was destroyed by internally placed explosives.
Prediction: This would be a logistically intense undertaking. Many people would be involved. People talk, things get said, records become discovered (think Watergate, Iran-Contra, Valery Plame, etc).
Observation: No signs that anyone, anywhere was involved.
Without some sort of explanation, this counts as a refutation. All the other objections that we raised are in the same vein.
-
All you have to do is question things, which is what science is all about.
No, science is all about the testing of hypothesis. So far, I have seen no sign that the conspiracy theorists have made definite predictions based on their hypothesis that can be tested.

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by lost-apathy, posted 08-21-2007 7:22 PM lost-apathy has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 151 (417915)
08-25-2007 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Hyroglyphx
08-24-2007 10:48 PM


Re: WTC
Okay, lets think about this objectively for a moment. Do you have any idea what the collusion factor must have been to pull off a stunt of this magnitude?
There were about, what, 4,000 employees in both Trade Centers? And nobody noticed strange men wiring their building with explosives? I assume you understand that a project such as this would have taken weeks to accomplish.
Heh. Too many movies, I think. Lost probably thinks that Ocean's Eleven can just put on workmen's coveralls and walk into the front door carrying explosives in gym bags.

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-24-2007 10:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by subbie, posted 08-25-2007 11:09 AM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 151 (417919)
08-25-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by subbie
08-25-2007 11:09 AM


Re: WTC
Content deleted.
If you have to explain the joke, then it probably wasn't funny to begin with.
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by subbie, posted 08-25-2007 11:09 AM subbie has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 151 (418150)
08-26-2007 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by nator
08-26-2007 8:26 AM


Actually, you gave an even better answer:
I have read this thread with a great deal of amusement and wry delight.
'Nuff said!

I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by nator, posted 08-26-2007 8:26 AM nator has not replied

  
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