Was the destruction of the twin towers scientifically possible on 9/11

How many people who were in on the conspiracy have been identified so far?--Percy

Conspiracy theorists are a type of True Believer, and as Dr. Adequate noted, there's a lot of similarity from one True Believer to the next. If history is any guide, Lost-apathy cannot be persuaded out of his belief in a 911 conspiracy. Almost no True Believer ever is persuaded away from their belief of choice.It isn't widely known today that speculation about conspiracies was rife in the decades after Lincoln was shot, but these conspiracy theories died away as the people for whom this event loomed large in their lives themselves died. The same will eventually be true of the Kennedy assassination. Kennedy assassination conspiracy conventions look like retiree communities, and as these people die so will these theories.Evidence is the framework of history, and so conspiracy theories, constructed as they are from a lack of evidence, are like hollow buildings with no internal support, or like Star Wars conventions if the attendees really believed in those battles from "a long time ago and in a galaxy far, far away..."The reasons people become obsessed with conspiracy theories are probably as varied as the theories themselves, but we shouldn't be surprised at their wide spread acceptance. Day-to-day experience with the people around us, and particularly with people on the Internet, provides a wealth of evidence that great numbers of people believe truly strange things. The list of strange beliefs unsupported by evidence is probably endless, I won't even attempt a recitation.In mid-2006 a listener to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast asked if there were any areas of pseudoscience where the skeptics had been wrong. The host, Stephen J. Novella, recited a list of pseudosciences that skeptics were debunking in the 1960s, and it's the same list as today, Bigfoot, alien abductions, ESP, telekinesis, past lives and creationism to name just a few. All pseudosciences remain frozen at the same stage of progress because they have no evidence to drive them forward.And that is the case here with the 911 conspiracy. True believers will never give up their pet conspiracy theory no matter how much evidence is presented, because for them the conclusions are not a matter of evidence, they're a matter of fact, and for them it is only a matter twisting the evidence within their own minds to fit that fact. They cannot observe this process happening within them, it can only be observed from the outside, and everyone else can rebut and chuckle and cite evidence and scoff and argue and poke fun, but it won't make a lick of difference to the True Believer. He knows what happened, and no amount of evidence or argument or ridicule can change his mind.So just nod your heads and tiptoe softly from the room.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.Edited by Percy, : Typos.

People still believe these things, including, incredibly enough, a flat earth: The Flat Earth Society and The Flat Earth Society ForumsFundamentally, all conspiracy theorists have the same disease, and for the most part there is no cure. Whatever the particular conspiracy theory of choice is for someone, there's no talking them out of it. Something's gone haywire in their mind that affects their ability to rationally assess evidence. People have been citing you evidence all along in this thread, but it's had no effect because it isn't evidence that causes a conspiracy theory to turn someone into a True Believer, it's something else.Unfortunately, we don't know what that something else is. If we did then we might be able to remedy the gullibility of people who believe in things like past lives, therapeutic touch, homeopathy, magnetic bracelets and clairvoyance, to mention just a few.But there's usually nothing to be done for these people. All you can do is combat the nonsense by putting accurate information out there in the hopes that fewer people might catch the disease.--Percy

Hi Lost-apathy,There's really no sense arguing on the evidence, you're a True Believer, after all. There's far more benefit to pointing out where your failing to make rational assessments of evidence. You won't accept this yourself, of course, but hopefully there will be some benefit to others who might read this. We don't know? This is like the creationists who argue that evolution is just a conspiracy that tens of thousands of scientists have kept secret for over 150 years. This kind of reasoning is central to many conspiracy theorists, that large numbers of people over periods of many years can successfully maintain a secret without any break in the ranks and without any actual evidence becoming exposed. One can't argue against such logic, only marvel at it. As Lewis Black quipped about his reaction to one particularly incredible creationist argument, "I had to remind myself to breath." And passing up how many Pulitzers and best-sellers, not to mention world-wide fame and a permanent place among the pantheon of great reporters, right up there with Woodward and Bernstein?This is another hallmark of the conspiracy theorist, that whatever is necessary for their particular fantasy to be possible, that must be what happened. If it requires thousands of reporters, including energetic and enthusiastic young reporters eager to make a name for themselves, to pass up potential career-making stories, so be it! This is another one of those "remind yourself to breath" affairs. The planes were empty???? The mind boggles!Once again, there's no point arguing this on the merits. If the conspiracy theorist's pet beliefs require that hundreds of people entered planes and then disappeared off the planes without a trace while somehow still leaving their DNA at the WTC site, then that's what happened. This fallacy is called "responding while (probably) purposefully misunderstanding the argument," it probably has a simpler name. What you've done is link to a webpage listing people caught up in the same fantasy as yourself.What Subbie was referring to wasn't people involved in post-facto speculation, but as he very clearly said, and as you even quoted, "None of the dozens, 100s or even 1,000s of people who must have been involved in the planning and execution of the demolition has spilled the beans."In other words, and as if it weren't already incredibly obvious, he said no one involved in the conspiracy has been exposed or come forward.This is a familiar "misstep" in discussions with conspiracy theorists. Don't have an answer for something? Then just respond to something else. I think most reasonable people would concede that the collapse of WTC-7 was unexpected. It still seems surprising even today.So if there really had been a 911 conspiracy, then the last thing the perpetrators would want to do is bring down an unrelated building not hit by airplanes, since it would raise suspicions that something other than airplanes was involved. In other words, 911 conspiracy theorists are citing as evidence for a conspiracy an event that argues against a conspiracy. I'm sure the "fallacy of irrationality" has a more proper name, but that's what this is.--Percy

Interesting. I only read the first 50 messages, but Zeuzzz seems to be holding off all detractors.--Percy

?--Percy