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Author Topic:   UCLA student tased multiple times... pointless police violence?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 142 (364630)
11-18-2006 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Hyroglyphx
11-18-2006 9:56 PM


Re: Reviewing the video
This is just one instance of a whole counter-culture who demonize law enforcement and seek to emasculate the field.
Sorry but I for one cannot see that.
Final analysis: The police were justified in their actions.
Can't see that either. I would hate to see what they might think was the appropriate response to an overdue book.
Right now there is far too little information to make a full determination of the whole event, but I can see NO justification of using violence simply because someone refuses to leave a library.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 9:56 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 10:50 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 142 (364636)
11-18-2006 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Hyroglyphx
11-18-2006 10:50 PM


Re: Reviewing the video
How would you have handled it if you asked the man to leave and he didn't leave? Diplomacy failed, so what other alternatives exist?
well, let's see:
  1. Do nothing.
  2. Observe.
  3. Call for additional response.
  4. Take a picture of him and tell him it will be turned into student services in the morning.
  5. Sit down beside him.
Just off the top of my head.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 10:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 11:13 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 142 (364643)
11-18-2006 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Hyroglyphx
11-18-2006 11:13 PM


Re: Reviewing the video
It's a library nemesis, a library.
That's not a viable option when someone is trespassing on private property. Maybe we'll let the guy come to your house and we'll see how long doin' nothin' will work out for you.
First off it is NOT private property, it is the "University of California Los Angeles". You love bringing up completely off topic comparisons. That might work some places but that dog won't hunt here.
Observe what exactly? Observe him reading? What's that going to accomplish?
It will put someone on site in case ANYTHING threatening were to happen. As long as he is studying and not disrupting other people, what is the problem?
There were three officers present. How many more were really necessary?
If they had to resort to a taser, then obviously not enough.
Turn him into student services? And what exactly is that going to accomplish? Revoke his library card? Something tells me that anyone not willing to comply with officers after being tased won't be willing to listen to librarians either.
Get serious. If he is a student then he had EVERY right to be there.
Maybe they did. I'm sure what prompted the camera to come on was after he made a big scene by not leaving after he was talked to. Something tells me they didn't break down the door, rush over to him and start tasing him.
They obviously didn't sit long enough.
Come on nemesis, it is a library at a publicly funded school, owned by the citizens of California.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 11:13 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 11:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 142 (364654)
11-18-2006 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Hyroglyphx
11-18-2006 11:53 PM


Re: Reviewing the video
NJ, there was simply no call for the taser incident. It happened because the rentacops lost control.
They screwed the pooch.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 11:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 142 (364662)
11-19-2006 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
11-19-2006 12:05 AM


Re: Reviewing the video
I wouldn't worry though. Because its in California, with any luck, he'll get off and be offered a major book deal over his ordeal, the state will award him punitive damages in the amount of 6 million dollars and all the officers will not only be fired, but also will go to prison for 30 years without the possibility of parole.
Well most of that sounds reasonable.
He should get some punitive damages. Likely not 6 million, but something.
It's unlikely he will get a book deal, but if offered, so what.
The officers certainly need training. Not sure if they should be fired. Their supervisors though definitely need at the very least a hard dope slap and likely should be fired.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-19-2006 12:05 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 39 of 142 (364713)
11-19-2006 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
11-19-2006 12:51 AM


Re: Gaining Compliance
well, according to the matrix on page 4, at the very beginning of the manual, the most basic material, the UCLA folk screwed the pooch.
Thanks for the link.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-19-2006 12:51 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 60 of 142 (364773)
11-19-2006 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
11-19-2006 2:34 PM


Based on the evidence that YOU cited...
Still waiting for a response to Message 39.
You provided a link to a procedures manual as part of your support for your position back in Message 30 wich can be found at comprehensive training manual.
According to the very manual that you cited the rentacops screwed up and did not follow the Response Matrix that can be found on page 4 of the manual you cited.
In addition, a host of other options have been presented by myself and others.
Do you agree that according to the very Response Matrix that you cited the rentacops did NOT follow procedure?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-19-2006 2:34 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Modulous, posted 11-19-2006 5:24 PM jar has not replied
 Message 70 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-21-2006 7:05 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 66 of 142 (364922)
11-20-2006 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Hyroglyphx
11-20-2006 1:01 PM


Still patiently waiting for a response.
Just wondering if you had time to respond to Message 60 and Message 39?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-20-2006 1:01 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 142 (365235)
11-21-2006 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Hyroglyphx
11-21-2006 7:05 PM


Re: Based on the evidence that YOU cited...
But to show that the response was still within the realm of reason, I listed 4 more real-world examples of tasers being employed on video. I think each instance shows that law enforcement personnel were justified in their actions. I will show you another instance of tasing that I do not agree with
Irrelevant.
Sorry but using a taser does not even fall within the realm of pain compliance as defined in the manual YOU provided.
However, if you listen to the tape, the man was likely being an Active aggressor before being tased. So, in that, it seems doubly justified.
Again, assumption of facts not in evidence. I listened to the tapes and see no such indication.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-21-2006 7:05 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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