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Author Topic:   UCLA student tased multiple times... pointless police violence?
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 142 (366626)
11-28-2006 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by mick
11-28-2006 7:36 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
I was expecting to be criticised for my attitude that cops are working against the interests of normal students. I DID NOT expect to get criticised for thinking that the US democracy has degraded to such an extent that standing up to cops was tantamount to suicide.

Maybe you don't get the news? Cops in New York shot an unarmed black man in his car more than 50 times for no discernable reason, without identifying themselves as police. Oh, right - "they thought they saw a gun."

And you're telling me that a bunch of cops, faced with an approaching angry crowd, aren't going to "see a gun"? I think quite a few people get shot to death in your little scenario.

[qss]I am not aware of any incident where college cops have shot to death thirty white students. [/qs]

Did I say thirty? Did I imply that the cops were going to shoot every single student? Try to constrain your responses to what I actually wrote.

But you really think that a crowd of thirty students can attack 6(?) cops and nobody's getting shot? Cops shoot people when they think their lives are at risk, and I would think my life was at risk if thirty people were moving to an attack position. I might even "see a gun" if I thought that's what it would take to get out of there alive.

Personally, I think that the cops are servants of the people, and that a couple of well-placed uppercuts would be sufficient in calming the situation and showing the cops exactly who they are supposed to be working for.

How does that make sense to you? When you've been the target of angry mobs in the past, what was your reaction?

1) An extended inner monologue about your civil relationship to the social contract; or
2) "Oh, shit, I need to get the hell out of here! These people are going to kill me!"

We need to understand that we're not talking about campus patrol, here. This is a state university so the security is handled by the regular police. Agents of the state who do stuff like arrest drug dealers and get in gunfights with gang members. People who have experience shooting people, and who probably aren't going to hesitate to do so again. I mean, they tasered this guy for no reason. You think it's unreasonable to believe that they would escalate force even further?

I don't see any indication from the situation that they would have shown any restraint to an advancing, angry mob.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 7:36 PM mick has not yet responded

  
mick
Member (Idle past 2547 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 92 of 142 (366627)
11-28-2006 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by crashfrog
11-28-2006 8:01 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
gasby writes:

If the surrounding students were to step up and bash the cops on the head, it would have turned into an excuse for the cops to carry out more excessive force without being criticized.

chiroptera writes:

if the students had done something more physical, and if violence did escalate, then public opinion would overwhelmingly have been on the side of the police

This is why Americans are considered political illiterates everywhere in the world. These lazy, bourgeois people think that the aim of democracy is to avoid "being bashed on the head". Their concern with playing things by the book is what allowed their rulers to invade another country and to kill tens of thousands if people in the name of an emasculated vision of democracy which involves "being nice to cops". It's depressing to read it, and more so because the people who write this nonsense are on the left rather than the right of politics.

It is time for the left in the US to stand against the authoritarian violence that is carried out in their name. It is unsurprising that Americans fail to do so. Rather, they would rather deal in ironies:

chiroptera writes:

Americans don't even like violent protest.


gasby writes:

they are authorized to use lethal force if they felt threatened, and a bunch of students jumping on top of these cops would have been perceived as very threatening

Pathetic.

Mick

Edited by mick, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2006 8:01 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 9:06 PM mick has responded
 Message 98 by Taz, posted 11-28-2006 9:31 PM mick has not yet responded
 Message 128 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-29-2006 1:49 PM mick has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6396
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 93 of 142 (366632)
11-28-2006 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by crashfrog
11-28-2006 8:01 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
Hee hee hee.


Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2006 8:01 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6396
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 94 of 142 (366653)
11-28-2006 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by mick
11-28-2006 8:21 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
quote:
It is time for the left in the US to stand against the authoritarian violence that is carried out in their name.

What "left" in the US? Do you mean the entire left here in the US? Well, okay, but I'm not sure even the both of us together will accomplish much.


Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 8:21 PM mick has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 9:11 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded
 Message 96 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:13 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
mick
Member (Idle past 2547 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 95 of 142 (366654)
11-28-2006 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Chiroptera
11-28-2006 9:06 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
crashfrog writes:

What "left" in the US? Do you mean the entire left here in the US? Well, okay, but I'm not sure even the both of us together will accomplish much.

Well that is your problem isn't it? I have been active in trade unions and anti-racism campaigns in my own country, and it maybe is time for middle class white students at UCLA to be active too.

Mick


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 9:06 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 96 of 142 (366656)
11-28-2006 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Chiroptera
11-28-2006 9:06 PM


... especially not from Oklahoma.

(I did my time)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 9:06 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 9:21 PM Michael has responded

  
mick
Member (Idle past 2547 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 97 of 142 (366658)
11-28-2006 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Michael
11-28-2006 9:13 PM


well michael, this is exactly what I mean. Lazy americans who think they are excluded from democratic participation because they live in backwaters like Oklahoma. It's pathetic, and dangerous.

Mick


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:13 PM Michael has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:43 PM mick has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 852 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 98 of 142 (366660)
11-28-2006 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by mick
11-28-2006 8:21 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
I do not appreciate being bunched together with bat. Can't you see I'm a tasmanian devil?

Edited by gasby, : No reason given.


Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc

The thread about this map can be found here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 8:21 PM mick has not yet responded

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 99 of 142 (366664)
11-28-2006 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by mick
11-28-2006 9:21 PM


Your cartoon characterization of Americans is interesting, but seems to be far from reality.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 9:21 PM mick has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 9:50 PM Michael has not yet responded
 Message 101 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 9:55 PM Michael has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6396
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 100 of 142 (366665)
11-28-2006 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Michael
11-28-2006 9:43 PM


You mean his naive belief that the US is a democracy? Yeah, I wonder where he gets his information.


Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:43 PM Michael has not yet responded

  
mick
Member (Idle past 2547 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 101 of 142 (366667)
11-28-2006 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Michael
11-28-2006 9:43 PM


Okay, I said:

"This is why Americans are considered political illiterates everywhere in the world"

In response I get the following replies:

Chiroptera writes:

Hee hee hee

Michael writes:

... especially not from Oklahoma.

Gasby writes:

Can't you see I'm a tasmanian devil?

Chiroptera writes:

What "left" in the US?

Well, I'm proved incorrect aren't I? Politically-committed citizens of the US have clearly demonstrated their clarity of thought and knowledge of history.

Excuse me whie I vomit.

Mick

Edited by mick, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:43 PM Michael has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:59 PM mick has not yet responded

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 102 of 142 (366669)
11-28-2006 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by mick
11-28-2006 9:55 PM


My initial response was to Chiroptera, not to you. It was an expression of empathy to him.

Need a bucket?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 9:55 PM mick has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 10:04 PM Michael has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6396
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 103 of 142 (366670)
11-28-2006 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Michael
11-28-2006 9:59 PM


And the "hee hee hee" was part of a short conversation between crashfrog and I, in particular, a response to a D&D reference he made.


Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 9:59 PM Michael has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 10:09 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded
 Message 105 by Michael, posted 11-28-2006 10:10 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
mick
Member (Idle past 2547 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 104 of 142 (366672)
11-28-2006 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Chiroptera
11-28-2006 10:04 PM


Well Chiroptera, it's more serious than that.

Your rulers have gone and invaded a foreign country for their own financial gain, and now they're tyrannizing dark-skinned citizens within US borders.

I don't see any response from US citizens that makes me think anybody is taking this seriously. The question is, can you go and drift into a fascist government and enjoy it while feeling smug for scoring a point on Evc forum?

Mick


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 10:04 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 10:17 PM mick has not yet responded
 Message 129 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-29-2006 1:55 PM mick has not yet responded
 Message 135 by nator, posted 12-01-2006 5:11 PM mick has not yet responded

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 105 of 142 (366673)
11-28-2006 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Chiroptera
11-28-2006 10:04 PM


So much for mick's "clarity of thought."

Edited by Michael, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 10:04 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by mick, posted 11-28-2006 10:24 PM Michael has not yet responded
 Message 110 by Chiroptera, posted 11-28-2006 10:40 PM Michael has not yet responded

  
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