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Author Topic:   The Three Minute SOAPBOX:
Phat
Member
Posts: 9762
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 31 of 41 (474203)
07-06-2008 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
01-02-2008 5:59 PM


Everyone will be famous for 15 minutes.
Anyone else have something to say? :?

Edited by Phat, : emoticon


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 01-02-2008 5:59 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 1695 days)
Posts: 356
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 32 of 41 (474228)
07-06-2008 9:58 PM


A Case for Vegetarianism
While nations experience riots over global food shortages, I recall some adamently blaming crops grown for biofuels as one of the leading agents. In addition, as the world experiences global warming and its effects on the planet, many blame our choice of automobile as a leading cause. But what about our choice of diet? Does what we ingest have any influence on these matters?

Over 70% of the U.S. corn, soy, and wheat is fed to livestock, yet the protein input to energy output ratio ranges from 4:1 to as high as 54:1; this feed for livestock could be used to feed up to 800 million people. ( This is assuming, of course, that the feed would be suitable for humans. I did see King Corn, though, and was surprised to find that much of the corn grown in the U.S. is unsuitable, as is, for human consumption. Thus, I think this number might be inflated).

Moreover, the growing of crops for livestock requires the use of roughly half of our nations water supply and 80% of its agricultural land.

Also, the treatment of animals in factory farming is appalling and ignoble. Pigs' ears and tails are clipped with metal cutters to prevent one from eating anothers in a densely populated enclosure. Cows, prior to slaughter, are knocked unconscious with a 300 volt, 2 amp stun gun. If this doesn't work, they will resort to a captive bolt pistol to the front of the head. Then, hung upside down, their necks are slit and the animal dies of exsanguination. This disturbs me, greatly. Singer calls this speciesism, and I feel compelled to agree with him.

Shifting to global warming, a 2006 UN initiative cited the livestock industry as one of the leading causes of environmental degradation,
including air and water pollution, land degradation, global warming, and loss of biodiversity. Animal agriculture is responsible for roughly 18% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions, compared to 13.5% from the transportation sector. Nearly 70% of human-related nitrous oxides and 37% of human induced methane are from animal agriculture.

Furthermore, the tons of excrement that are produced from cows pollute lakes, rivers, and groundwater. The overfertilization of crops used for feed is a leading producer of the massive 22,126 square km. Gulf of Mexico dead zone. Countless ecosystems are suffering from eutrophication. The massive monoculture of animal meat is environmentally unsustainable.

It's interesting, as a side note, to visualize just how many hamburger-based fast food restaurants there are in this city: McDonald's, Carl's Jr. Wendy's, Sonic, Fat Burger, Mega Burger, Burger King, and so on. I visualized how many there were, then I thought about other restaurants, such as Chinese food and Mexican food, and sandwich shops, with Subway and Port of Subs, Togo's and Jersey Mike's subs, and sit-down restaurants, like Ruby Tuesdays, TGI Friday's, Coco's, Denny's, and so on; then thought about grocery stores: Albertson's, CostCo, Sam's Club, Food 4 Less, Ralphs, Smith's, etc.

I started with the conceptualization of the number in one city, then, by degrees, expanded to the county, then the state, then the region, then the country, continent, hemisphere, and finally the world. It's easier to imagine, though far more disturbing, how roughly 10 billion animals are slaughtered every year when seen through this lense.

We can reproach biofuels and transportation for global food shortages and global warming, and this would, in part, be justified, but I don't recall, with the exception of the U.N. any world leaders mentioning the greater instigator, the elephant in the room ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism


Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-08-2008 1:53 PM BMG has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 5512
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 33 of 41 (474439)
07-08-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by BMG
07-06-2008 9:58 PM


Re: A Case for Vegetarianism
growing of crops for livestock requires the use of roughly half of our nations water supply and 80% of its agricultural land.

I find this figure impossible to believe. That means farmers pay 80% of the nations water bill? The majority of water being spent in America is most likely on American's showering. That's the 300 million people a day showering anywhere from 5 minutes to an half-an-hour on average. The average output measured in gallons is approximately 5-30 gallons per shower.

Also, the treatment of animals in factory farming is appalling and ignoble.

I agree, which is why I only eat kosher meat. The conditions for the animals is cleaner and healthier, which ultimately is cleaner and healthier for the consumer. The animals are slaughtered far more humanely than non-kosher slaughterhouses which slit the throats of cows to let them bleed to death slowly.

Singer calls this speciesism, and I feel compelled to agree with him.

People like Singer speak about differences as if, one, we're either not supposed to recognize the differences, or two, if we do, we should deny or ignore them. Nobody eats animals for the sake of them being different. That's a very asinine argument and easily refuted by the animals we don't eat, versus the one's we do.

Shifting to global warming, a 2006 UN initiative cited the livestock industry as one of the leading causes of environmental degradation, including air and water pollution, land degradation, global warming, and loss of biodiversity. Animal agriculture is responsible for roughly 18% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions, compared to 13.5% from the transportation sector. Nearly 70% of human-related nitrous oxides and 37% of human induced methane are from animal agriculture.

That's kind of funny that you mention that, because the EPA states that livestock themselves offer a substantial increase in methane gases being released in to the atmosphere.

"Among domesticated livestock, ruminant animals (cattle, buffalo, sheep, goats, and camels) produce significant amounts of methane as part of their normal digestive processes. In the rumen, or large fore-stomach, of these animals, microbial fermentation converts feed into products that can be digested and utilized by the animal. This microbial fermentation process, referred to as enteric fermentation, produces methane as a by-product, which can be exhaled by the animal. Methane is also produced in smaller quantities by the digestive processes of other animals, including humans, but emissions from these sources are insignificant."

So if we were to allow cows and bulls to roam free unchecked, there populations would skyrocket.

Furthermore, the tons of excrement that are produced from cows pollute lakes, rivers, and groundwater. The overfertilization of crops used for feed is a leading producer of the massive 22,126 square km. Gulf of Mexico dead zone.

Cows are going to excrete waste whether you have them contained and confined to one location, or whether they are roaming the wilderness, crapping in streams till their hearts content. In fact, you're just going to ensure that more of them are on earth excreting wherever they choose.

Your arguments are now becoming extremely specious and asinine. I realize that the ALF aligned with the ELF, but one really doesn't support the other. Your best bet is just to go from the ethical point of view.


“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo
This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by BMG, posted 07-06-2008 9:58 PM BMG has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by kjsimons, posted 07-08-2008 8:23 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 12-31-2016 4:23 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 647
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 34 of 41 (474489)
07-08-2008 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
07-08-2008 1:53 PM


Re: A Case for Vegetarianism
I find this figure impossible to believe. That means farmers pay 80% of the nations water bill? The majority of water being spent in America is most likely on American's showering.

Well NJ, down here in O-town, FLA they are all concerned because 50% of the municipal water is being used to water the lawn. I have no idea how much water crops are using but 50% of Orlando's fresh water is used to keep the grass green. One possible reason why so much water is used on crops it that we are growing them where there isn't sufficient rainfall to grow them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-08-2008 1:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 1695 days)
Posts: 356
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 35 of 41 (474514)
07-09-2008 3:16 AM


Hi, NJ.

Something tells me you missed Message 21.

AbE: Would you prefer we started a new thread?

Edited by Infixion, : No reason given.


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9762
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 36 of 41 (589768)
11-04-2010 12:02 PM


The Three Minute SOAPBOX Remix
The purpose of this topic is simply to allow anyone to have the opportunity to say whatever they want to say to everyone who may be listening to them here at EvC forum. Any topic is fair game, and politeness and proper form is expected.

Jump up here on the podium and give your best advice, encouragement, philosophy, or pet topic that you feel must be said. Everyone can have about a screens worth of stuff to say...a good three minute speech. Direct your rant at everyone and not just a select audience of one, two, or a few. This soapbox can be heard for virtually thousands of miles away from your computer!

********************************************************************
Everyone will be famous for 15 minutes.
Andy Warhol

Edited by Phat, : modified rules


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9762
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 37 of 41 (796568)
12-31-2016 1:24 PM


End Times Trumpet
2017 will be the year that Donald Trump begins his presidency. Ironically, he was elected due in some measure to the evangelical fundamentalist Christians who see him as a solution to the evil of socialism---a belief which I happen to oppose.

Yes, I have my quirky beliefs. I think Trump will steer this world closer to war rather than farther from it. The war, however..is in my mind a war of ideas. The target will be the control of global finance. While the specifics of such a conflict are currently speculative at best, I suspect that the war will involve the oligarchy of wealthy individuals consolidating power over the socialist masses.

More comments on soapboxes past:

Omni writes:

A source of puzzlement to me: Evangelicals/Creationists mostly find their home in the Republican Party, along with big business.

Now that Trump is in power, it will be interesting to see the response to global warming by the government in power.
Why are so many environmentalists and lovers of all creatures secularists? Where are the voices of the faithful? Why is there no chorus rising from the churches to stop the destruction of this gorgeous world?
It remains to be seen just which God we actually worship.(as a nation)

Mike The Wiz writes:

I think the skeptic is a highly under-appreciated individual.

and there is a lot to be skeptical about these days.

Larni writes:

I spend hours every day telling my clients what essentially boils down to this:

quote:
Just 'cause you believe it, doesn't mean it's true.
If you never do things, things won't get done."

"Other people can't read your mind, you have to tell them."

"When you ask yourself: what if.......? (insert negative prediction), answer the question, don't sit there asking 'what if.....? over and over."

"Worrying is a habit, it's like smoking, you can quit"


Great stuff!

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9924
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 38 of 41 (796584)
12-31-2016 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
07-08-2008 1:53 PM


Re: A Case for Vegetarianism
I find this figure impossible to believe. That means farmers pay 80% of the nations water bill? The majority of water being spent in America is most likely on American's showering.

This is something you could have checked, and doing so reveals turns out that your belief is well off the mark. Here is a place to find some statistics on water usage.

https://water.usgs.gov/watuse/wuto.html.

Hydoelectric power is the largest usage, but let's recall that the bulk of the water used in such cases is returned at a lower elevation so it is still available for immediate reuse. After that, the largest single usage is irrigation, which is well beyond the amount used for showering.

The animals are slaughtered far more humanely than non-kosher slaughterhouses which slit the throats of cows to let them bleed to death slowly.

What? Doesn't the kosher process consists of a single slit to the throats of animals to let them bleed to death over a period involving several minutes? What are you suggesting here?

Cows are going to excrete waste whether you have them contained and confined to one location, or whether they are roaming the wilderness, crapping in streams till their hearts content. In fact, you're just going to ensure that more of them are on earth excreting wherever they choose.

The truth of this argument is not clear to me. The reason there are so many cows and pigs around in the same areas people live is due to deliberate efforts by human beings to raise them for sale. If they were in the wild, cattle and pigs would compete with human beings for land, and nobody would be providing easy food for them. So if cows were left to their own resources and hunted of them was allowed, would cattle end up plentiful like say deer do in some cases, or would the result be something like bison where the population is incredibly small?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-08-2008 1:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9762
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 39 of 41 (814282)
07-05-2017 3:58 PM


3 Minute Rant
quote:
The purpose of this topic is simply to allow anyone to have the opportunity to say whatever they want to say to everyone who may be listening to them here at EvC forum. Any topic is fair game, and politeness and proper form is expected.
Jump up here on the podium and give your best advice, encouragement, philosophy, or pet topic that you feel must be said.

Everyone can have about a screen's worth of stuff to say...a good three-minute speech. Direct your rant at everyone and not just a select audience of one, two, or a few. This soapbox can be heard for virtually thousands of miles away from your computer!

***************************************************************
Everyone will be famous for 15 minutes.
Andy Warhol


And my rant of the day is based on my job at a grocery store.

Why do shoppers always cherry pick sales? They seemingly ignore store rules on limits and instead try and make excuses as to why they and only they should be entitled to purchase a truckload of a sale item, which runs us out of the item and causes irritation from other shoppers deprived of the item. People are so darn greedy! Human nature at its raunchiest!

They may assume that we should stock enough of a sale item...and we try....but when one guy buys 25 pork ribs on sale, he wipes out the shelf for the next ten customers or so...even when we impose item limits the people try and find a way to cheat the limitation. Well...that's my rant for today!

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3538
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 40 of 41 (814790)
07-12-2017 9:26 PM


I find it disturbing that members are emulating the Trump tweet writing style
Such as ending messages with *sad*.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 07-13-2017 12:32 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13641
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 41 of 41 (814871)
07-13-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Minnemooseus
07-12-2017 9:26 PM


Re: I find it disturbing that members are emulating the Trump tweet writing style
Moose writes:

I find it disturbing that members are emulating the Trump tweet writing style


Pfft. My messages were mostly under 140 characters before I ever heard of Trump.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-12-2017 9:26 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
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