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Member (Idle past 5971 days) Posts: 132 From: Washington, DC, US Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Lake Varve Sediments and the Great Flood | |||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Creationist writes: Call it what you want, but it takes a great deal of faith to beleive that these fish and birds layed there year after year with no decay and no scavangers to eat them. Anyway the whole thing was put to rest by Buchheim and Biaggi in 1988. http://www2.nature.nps.gov/...gy/pub/grd4/nsp_paleo_vol4.pdf This is a 138 page document, which page? Edited by anglagard, : malformed quote box Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
reversespin writes: So after the creationists world flood covered the entire earth you'd have all this muddy waters being sorted by the wave action while the flood waters still covered the earth. If you have a global flood and global 'muddy waters' as the mechanism that creates varves, then the earth should be covered in varves. Instead we observe metamorphic, igneous, and sedimentary rocks of all kinds including evaporites. Notice that it is quite difficult to create granite through 'wave action.' The same depositional environment makes the same deposit, in the lab or in the field. If you actually have a model that shows how all the different types of surface rocks were created from muddy water through wave action, please start a new topic. If you can't defend this assertion, then it is obvious that the diversity of the earth's surface geology was not solely caused by global muddy waters and wave action, which in turn would throw doubt on all of your geologic pronouncements, regardless of source. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
reversespin writes: I'll give God the credit for the granites due to the helium suggesting its only became granite 6,000 years ago... But Humphreys granites has nothing to do with varves kind of a different subject, etc.... It is NOT a different subject. I asked if muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth covered in varves? Answer the question. Goddidit is not an answer in a science thread.
If you want to understand limestone, granites, sedimentary rock, etc... you might check out the answers from genesis folk. No thanks, my degree in geological engineering comes from reputable professors from the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, not from con-men and hucksters selling dinosaur saddles. PS. I am quite familiar with AIG, ICR, and their ilk. What is your background in real science as taught by the 99.85% of bioscientists and geoscientists that accept an old earth and evolution? Or are you afraid of the truth? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
It is NOT a different subject. I asked if muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth covered in varves? When the flood happened the Word says it was summer in the southern hemisphere meaning it was winter in the northern hemisphere. So like where the glaciers melted in the northern hemisphere you'd find more glacial lakes like in minnesota and more exposed granite like in the Michigans upper penninsula. How does this answer the question "if muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth covered in varves?"
I'm winging it but you have granite uplifts like as in expressed in the rocky mountains (tetons jackson hole, etc...)like the Word says the hills were raised and the valleys lowered and this is what you see in the natural. psalm 104 OK, then why are all sedimentary basins on earth not covered in varves?
So you have the granite rocky mountains capturing the timber giving us the massive coal fossil grave yards and the sediment that could not carry the mountains but covering the massive timber all along the rocky mountains. Coal formation is not the subject of this thread. I repeat, "if muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth covered in varves?"
The badlands look like severly eroded hills where did all these sediments go, etc... Its like the Grand Canyon if the erosion happened over millions of years where is the missing sediment that would be present if it happened slowly over millions of years. According to your model, they all turned into varves, where are the varves?
Its like the Hudson Canyon many times greater than the Grand Canyon if it happened over millions of years it could not of carved it but a world flood waters washing off the earth answers questions like the size of the Hudson Canyon, Amazon Canyon, etc.... No answer again.
Actually the creationists appear to me to be questioning science where evolution seems to be saying this is it and don't question it, etc... Well if you have muddy waters compacting in kettle lakes then liquefaction can happen as particles sort due water exerting pressure on all sides of the particles. You have a whole host of biological and chemical processes affecting different senerio's, etc... Then tell us the mechanism by which the exact same global depositional environment created the diversity of deposits and landforms observed today. It's your assertion, this is a science thread, back it up.
For all you know kettle lakes were formed by a big chunk of ice floating in on the biblical flood settling into the soft post flood sediments and as it melted it formed millions of varves. I mean no one was there so lets test the varves what exactly is in the varve, humic acids, methane in the leachate, Co2, is it colloidal in nature, etc... With anaerobic digestion you'd have 14C becoming a part of the leachate which means you can not believe any data from lake varve studies unless you prove no anaerobic digestion Methane rising or water rising in springs from the bottom is not skewing the results. This thread is not about your personal ignorance of science. Geology has a model on how varves are formed, why the earth, or at least all sedimentary basins are not covered in varves, and how old varves most likely are at each point, often down to an annual basis. Once again "if muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth covered in varves?"
P.S. Don't feel bad that lake varves are meaningless thats usually seems to be the case when evolutionists put the cart ahead of the horse and call that science. Nebraska man, etc... Quit trying to weasel out by changing the subject to some off-topic fantasy about "Nebraska Man." Answer the question. If muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth (or at least every depositional basin) covered in varves? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
From Anglagard, apparently for the remainder of the thread:
quote: reversespin writes: The fossil record is stratified within the sediments whole trees going thru millions of years of your strata sediment layers. This thread is not about polystrate trees, it is about varves. Answer the question and quit palming the pea.
The obvious answer is your science lied to you in respect to millions of years. Fossils decay and if it has to wait for a million years to be covered its just a problem no evolutionists appear able to comprehend. However if they are buried within the muddied suspended sediments via liquefaction via a world flood they are preserved and thats basically our fossil record. Fossil preservation is also another subject that does not constitute an answer as to why all depositional basins are not covered with thousands of varves. Answer the question.
Those horizontal laminations in limestone are water lenses which are found all over the world. When the earth dried up pressure and lithification formed some pretty incredible formations not the kind you find in some lake beds. If you have the same depositional environment worldwide, then why is the surface of the earth not covered with these imaginary 'water lenses' or to everyone else, varves? How does "the earth drying up" make "pressure?" Did the "earth dry up" under the ocean? Is lithification caused by pressure or dehydration? And if lithification is caused by dehydration, please feel free to explain confined aquifers. A few sentences that make no sense whatsoever are not a replacement for the entire fields of physics, chemistry, and most of all geology. Answer the question. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Once again, from Anglagard:
quote: reversespin writes: It all depends if the sedimentation basins were formed during the flood in a liquefaction state its like aquifiers once you pull the water out of an aquifier due to pressure it lithifies it collapses never again able to be recharged to its previous capacities from the watershed. Palm that pea. Do you understand what I am saying? Do you understand what science is saying? If you throw a pencil up in the air, does it come down? If you throw that pencil in the air in the US does it come down? Does it come down in Europe? Australia? China? Africa? South America? Does geographic location control gravity? or resistance due to water? If you have a global flood of 'muddy waters' and 'wave action' does the sediment settle out in the US?, Europe?, Australia?, China?, Africa? South America? Does the pencil fall and the sediment settle out the same in each place? Does geographic location control gravity? or resistance due to water? Now if the pencil falls and the sediment settles the same, the effect is the same. So, as this is a science thread, please tell us how the same depositional environment, which is solely due to matter reacting to the force of gravity and resistance that are essentially exactly the same all over the globe, results in completely different structures and geologic formations depending upon the whim of geography. Does the salt decide upon itself to settle here and the conglomerate to settle there? How would they know? Do they have little cellphones and irreducibly complex flagellums so they can not only get to where they need to be but can also coordinate their actions? "if muddy waters and wave action are responsible for varves, and the muddy waters and wave action were global, then why isn't the earth covered in varves?" Answer the question. Edited by anglagard, : clarity, and a .001% hedge just in case someone actually decides to study gravimetric methods in geophysics Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
reversespin writes: P.S. Percy, It appears Ned's losing his cool again, Oh well I've got better things tournament to go to much more fun than trying to show how falitious annual varves past 5,400 years, ice varves, and walking some imaginary line whats on topic when like Ned is demanding that I answer questions that are off topic yet stay on topic. Wish you well however, etc... Remember fundies, when your absurd statements are challenged and despite all attempts to change the subject, you find you don't have a way out, just do the Anti-Truth Two Step. Here are the steps: 1. Declare victory 2. Run away See you next time, Whatever. To everyone else, keep your eye on that pea. Happy New Year. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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