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Author Topic:   An afterlife or no? You choose (for athiests and agnostics)
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 16 of 49 (285438)
02-10-2006 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by iano
02-10-2006 7:41 AM


Re: endless numbers
why someone who believes they are not going to exist would care about how they are viewed when they don't exist is a question worth asking.
An answer from kindness: if you know that someone you love may survive you, you might want them to remember you favorably, so as not to let their memory of you make them miserable.
There's also the answer from vanity.

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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 17 of 49 (285439)
02-10-2006 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by riVeRraT
02-10-2006 6:51 AM


Re: endless numbers
111,111x111,111=12345678987654321
Obviously, you didn't try that on a calculator.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by riVeRraT, posted 02-10-2006 6:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6486 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 18 of 49 (285456)
02-10-2006 9:37 AM


Tough question.
I guess, I'll take what I can get
I would like to see the end of the world tho... see how humanity and everything works out. Then maybe oblivion.

Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 19 of 49 (285462)
02-10-2006 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Yaro
02-10-2006 9:37 AM


Round and round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows
Was just watching a video of an AMG Mercedes vs a Yamaha R1 on the Nuremburgring racing circuit. The merc led the whole way and kept nigh on the same distance in front of the R1 - just about out of range for an overtaking manoevre. It reminds me of mankinds pursuit of 'something'. The something suggests that it is close enough to obtain but when we think we've obtained it, it turns out to be just a little further off than we thought. And we keep on going after it.
I would like to see the end of the world tho... see how humanity and everything works out.
Thus I reckon nothing will change much between now and then.
This message has been edited by iano, 10-Feb-2006 03:01 PM

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ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5916 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 20 of 49 (285463)
02-10-2006 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Omnivorous
02-09-2006 11:33 PM


eternity may be Groundhog Day
Yes, eternity may not be linear.
It may be circular, like the movie Groundhog Day.

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5898 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 21 of 49 (285467)
02-10-2006 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by iano
02-10-2006 6:46 AM


Time for a lesson
iano
iano
Although no one could know what an afterlife might look or feel like until they get there, there is at least one model of it which excludes linear time as an intrinsic property of it. Whilst I don't think anyone living in linear time can get their head around the idea of eternity, the model gives little clue as to what its like. For a person living in eternity looking at time, our linear yesterday, today and tomorrow are all present tense for them.
You are saying here that in your model the past,present and future are all in the present tense? Pardon me, iano, but that is meaningless dribble. Unless you can clarify how time passes when it is all present tense and is thus unmoving,then I think you are spouting nonsense of a grave sort here. All sound and fury signifying nothing.
But is it preferable to a life of no time? It could be exciting with no time to dull things unto boredom
Time is the measure of the movement of events in space. If there is no time things do not move, my friend, and now you are caught in a world where nothing occurs since this requires linear time. It would be duller by far than the notion I envisioned, since you would essentially be frozen without the passage of time. Indeed you woould not even have thoughts since these too require time for their engagement.
I don't think it's a matter of choice to be honest. The OP just respects the views of athiests
Eternity cares no more for atheists than it does for people of religious bent since these have no more to do with time than hair color does.
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-02-10 08:29 AM
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-02-10 08:31 AM

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time. R.P. Feynman

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Chronos
Member (Idle past 6216 days)
Posts: 102
From: Macomb, Mi, USA
Joined: 10-23-2005


Message 22 of 49 (285476)
02-10-2006 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iano
02-09-2006 6:16 PM


I don't believe in an after-life, but I would like it if there was one. It would also be nice to have the option of terminating my existence in this after-life if it ever became unbearable. At the very least, I'd like to live for a few thousand years. The 80 or so years we get now isn't enough. Oh well, wanting something doesn;t make it so.
BTW, being an atheist doesn't automatically rule out belief in an after-life.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 23 of 49 (285482)
02-10-2006 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by sidelined
02-10-2006 10:28 AM


Re: Time for a lesson
You are saying here that in your model the past,present and future are all in the present tense? Pardon me, iano, but that is meaningless dribble. Unless you can clarify how time passes when it is all present tense and is thus unmoving,then I think you are spouting nonsense of a grave sort here. All sound and fury signifying nothing.
The assumption in the OP appeals to the somewhat whimsical notion that an afterlife is possible (we can't know there isn't for sure until we die so its probably not all that whimsical at all). If an afterlife exists and it apparently provides no objective evidence of itself then to insert boundaries on what is possible in such an afterlife is somewhat futile - as you do here. That you cannot imagine movement/life without time is simply the reckoning of someone locked in in their model (time enables movement) saying (without knowing) that that is so. But to assign natural limitations onto something patently supernatural (if it exists) is unreasonable.
An afterlife is potentially capable of being anything at all for want of any inkling as to what it is about - if it exists
This message has been edited by iano, 10-Feb-2006 04:13 PM

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iano
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 24 of 49 (285488)
02-10-2006 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Chronos
02-10-2006 10:51 AM


BTW, being an atheist doesn't automatically rule out belief in an after-life.
Agreed. Like Buddhism etc

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3973
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 25 of 49 (285493)
02-10-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by iano
02-10-2006 11:17 AM


BTW, being an atheist doesn't automatically rule out belief in an after-life.
Agreed. Like Buddhism etc
Mainstream Buddhism is not atheistic, and there are flavors of Buddhism that are expressly theistic.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 26 of 49 (285494)
02-10-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by sidelined
02-10-2006 10:28 AM


Time doesn't flow
Read "The Fabric of the Cosmos" by Brian Greene for an explanation of why relativity tells us that time doesn't flow; the past, present and future may well all be there. Remember space and time are not separate but are views of spacetime. Just as all of space is "there" so is, apparently, all of time.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 27 of 49 (285613)
02-10-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Omnivorous
02-10-2006 11:22 AM


Mainstream Buddhism is not atheistic, and there are flavors of Buddhism that are expressly theistic.
Not my mates version. He mustn't be mainstream then. Does that make him a non-fundementalist buddhist?

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3973
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 28 of 49 (285633)
02-10-2006 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by iano
02-10-2006 1:57 PM


For all I know, iano, it makes him a pagan Buddhist.
Buddhism, like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, has managed to subdivide into many doctrinal schools. In the case of Buddhism, however, unlike Christianity and Christ, two men can say they are Buddha, and one of them doesn't have to be wrong.
Here's a bit from Full Wikipedia entry on Buddha
Widipedia writes:
The historical Buddha seems to have presented himself not as a god or savior, but as a teacher capable of guiding sentient beings out of samsara. Nevertheless, many forms of Buddhism do recognize savior-type figures. The technical differences between Buddhas, bodhisattvas, dharmapalas (protector deities), yidams ("tutelery deities"), and "gods" (Sanskrit deva, Tibetan lha) often blur in practical devotion. Nonetheless, all are seen within the mainstream Buddhist context as being empty of inherent existence, a quality no theistic religion would ascribe to its "god". Certain teachings of the Buddha in a number of Mahayana sutras, however, vigorously oppose the idea that even the Buddha (in his ultimate Dharmakaya mode) is not truly and eternally Real (see "Eternal Buddha" section below): according to this less widespread doctrine, only the realm of samsara has no enduring essence, whereas to assert the same of the Buddha is to commit a grave offence and to stray dangerously from the path of authentic Dharma (see Nirvana Sutra).

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 29 of 49 (285729)
02-10-2006 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Parasomnium
02-10-2006 7:53 AM


Re: endless numbers
111,111x111,111=12345678987654321
Obviously, you didn't try that on a calculator.
Oops, I meant 111,111,111x111,111,111=12345678987654321
I got it in a stupid email, I just remembered it wrong.
I should know better before posting stuff like that in here. It seems that only happens here, lol.

This message is a reply to:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 30 of 49 (285742)
02-10-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ThingsChange
02-10-2006 10:04 AM


Life is Groundhog Day
Double post
This message has been edited by iano, 11-Feb-2006 12:53 AM

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