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Author Topic:   Geology- working up from basic principles.
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 124 of 156 (542200)
01-08-2010 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by stewartreeve
01-08-2010 8:49 AM


quote:
Doesn't the Principle of Superposition have the following corollary/necessary implication (paraphrased):
"For any given vertical coordinate in a layer, it follows that any given horizontal point is said to be deposited at the same time, and thus, has the same age" (yes? no? am i mixed up with the Principle of Original Horizontality? Don't think so, but i should ask...)
Unless you assume horizontality very strongly, that can't be true. If the sediment was deposited at an angle, the layer will necessarily include points that were deposited at the same time at different vertical levels. That's simple geometry.
And while I'm no geologist the Principle seems to be about the relationship between layers, rather than the relationships between the particles that make up a layer:
Sedimentary layers are deposited in a time sequence, with the oldest on the bottom and the youngest on the top.
(from Wikipedia)
So I'm not convinced that there are true exceptions to the Principle - in my view there are only cautions on applying it outside of a strictly vertical context.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by stewartreeve, posted 01-08-2010 8:49 AM stewartreeve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by stewartreeve, posted 01-08-2010 10:24 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 131 of 156 (542227)
01-08-2010 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by stewartreeve
01-08-2010 10:24 AM


quote:
PaulK, i see your point, but i think the correction is quite trivial....perhaps i should re-phrase it as relating to the same relative or proportional point in the same layer?
That solves one problem, but it does potentially raise other issues (for instance, when did deposition start ? is it occurring at the same rate ?). The point is that you must add other assumptions, beyond superposition to identify the order when you include horizontal displacement.
quote:
Nonetheless, the point is that vertically-successive strata can be formed by a simultaneous, dynamic mechanism, by HORIZONTAL progression- and said strata, if analysed "blind", would conventionally be interpreted as forming one layer after another: the lowest first, then the next, then the next, and so on, according to the normal rendering of the Principle of Superposition; whilst the truth of the matter would be that the stratum were all formed at the same time: with the "youngest" part being at the horizontal "start", and not at the vertical "start" (bottom)...
I have to disagree. The vertical relationships all obey the Law of Superposition. It's just that the time involved is small. It would be more true to say that the deposition of the strata overlap and assigning a precise age to the whole stratum could be misleading. I'll also add that the sort of scenarios you seem to be proposing look to me to be small scale - both in terms of geographical area and time - and so not likely to be a big problem for geology.
quote:
Also, if people want to appeal to a particle-by-particle deposition for the dynamic scenario as still validating the general Principle of Superposition, then i'd have to remind them (and myself!) that the principle is concerned with the inter-stratum chronology - true? Thus, this appeal would reduce the necessary validity of the PoSn to only having intra-stratum relevance, instead of the inter-stratum relevance it is intended to have.
I don't think it does. That is, the particle-by-particle argument works in the same way whether the particles are part of the same layer or not. In every case the particle on top needs to arrive after the one on the bottom. The restriction that the argument does impose is that we are limited to strict vertical sections - however these sections can include any number of layers.
However, your idea of horizontal levels marking the same time runs into even bigger trouble if it is used between different layers. If the older layer is eroded unevenly, later sediment may be deposited into holes and gullies, arriving at the same horizontal level as sediment from the older layer.
So, I think all that can be said is that we need some caution when considering the horizontal dimension. In a strict vertical sense superposition works, unless the newer particles have some way of getting under the older particles already deposited.
Edited by PaulK, : Fixed broken sentence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by stewartreeve, posted 01-08-2010 10:24 AM stewartreeve has not replied

  
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