Er, a man who is physically attractive and who also is smart, and acheived some kind of outward success like advanced degrees or business acumen, is considered a prime catch.
Your reply does not address the nature of the problem. You just got done slamming guys in general because a small cross section of men that go to bars to pick up women (which is a small cross section of men in general) didn't choose a specific group of girls unless they said they were aerobics instructors.
My reply started by pointing out that physical success is what gets rewarded by sexual attention of females and not intellectual success. Your reply to that is to shift the goal posts. Okay, yeah it doesn't hurt if a guy is successful in business and is smart (in general). That is totally different than a person who is intellectual and pursues an intellectual career.
Whether you are great looking or not as a guy, mentioning that you are a physicist or chemist does NOT get you a phone number with women. That you have a career that brings in a lot of money might.
A doctor or lawyer is still considered my many mothers as the ultimate son in law, so much so that it is a cliche.
Funny, but I never met a girl in a bar that was worried what her mother wanted as a son in law when handing out her phone number. You know what challenges this connection you just made? Reality. Guys in science do NOT get girls' numbers in bars by mentioning their profession, and appealing to what their mother might want would only get a laugh.
The women in my example had the same attributes, yet they were rejected for the very same reasons a man would be considered desireable.
That is a very easy assertion (I mean really how can you or I say they are attractive), and one I challenged with other possibilities. Why could it not be that they were not looking for professional women at a bar for reasons other than intellectual intimidation? Heck, one reason I didn't mention is that maybe they ASSUMED an intellectual woman wouldn't want to be hit on or fall for something cheap like handing out a phone number.
As a guy I can tell you that if a girl is really good looking, most guys are NOT going to turn her down just because she is smart. Other factors may play into not wanting to get to know a girl further, but even the dumb jocks I knew were willing to have sex with a girl that was smarter than them.
The bottom line is, women tend to be attracted to men who achieve because it is considered powerful and masculine.
There's your problem, intellectual careers are NOT synonymous with success. Lawyers and doctors get their social status based on the money they make, not their brilliance.
More than a few men are threatened by intelligent women or women who achieve, feeling that it puts their masculinity at risk.
No arguing that more than a few might be. But that was not shown by your example, and neither can that be said about men in general.
Maybe you don't realize that this goes on all the time, in both blatant and more subtle ways, because you are a man.
I see, if I don't agree with you and pose alternative hypotheses or counterarguments it is that I am wrong, and simply cannot see the truth, because I am a man.
That's a great fallacy you have there schraf.
Believe me, no women I have ever spoken to about this has ever failed to tell me a story along the smae lines as the one I related.
That's funny, because someone just noted Feynman's counterexample and no guy I have ever spoken to has failed to tell me a story along the same lines. Am I free to extrapolate that women are threatened by the true intellectual capacity of men, and are simply golddiggers looking for men who are attractive and rich?
Oh yeah, and I just told you my gf does NOT have the same experiences. And I have dated more than one who was not only very smart, and in an intellectual career, but successful at getting dates.
The bar was popular with young professionals and other students.
That does not address my counter point... unless you are suggesting all male students could be represented by those at the bar? That members of all different "classes" of student may be found at a bar does not suggest that all kinds of males in those different classes go to bars... especially to pick up women.
Remember this was YOUR example. Some girls went to a bar and found they could be more successful getting picked up if they said they were aerobics instructors.
If you can't see that you are dealing with a very small cross section of guy that THEY were looking for, and that those guys may have had equally valid criteria for rejecting intellectuals (or choosing women who are physically inclined) than simply being frightened by them, then I suggest you are biased in your viewpoint... and not because you are a woman.
otherwise I wouldn't have learned that very smart people can be very sexual.
You just got done telling me that men are frightened by women who are smart, and that smart women tend to have problems getting men. It sounded like you weren't aware that smart women could be sexual, or at least successful at being sexual.
I want to state at the end of this that I have to take your word that these girls were attractive at all. Perhaps they were not, and so aerobics intructor made them seem at least semi attractive to guys who'd think that means they were easy.
In any case, why were they concerned with picking up guys in bars rather than in areas where men who appreciate intellect (and are not resorting to the meat market) might be? Are you telling me their main concern was guys that were intellectual? Seems an odd choice of hunting ground.
holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)