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Author Topic:   Illinois Jan 5 2000 UFO
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 1 of 23 (186998)
02-20-2005 2:23 PM


I'm interested in further discussion of the this sighting.
http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/st.clair/index.html
I notice there are some very dramatic pictures shown and there is no hint in the test of when they were taken. There is no hint in the text that they are not of the sightings.
I'm interested because I once stood next to someone while he was seeing a UFO with windows, flashing "landing lights" and doing amazing maneovers.
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 02-20-2005 14:27 AM

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 2 of 23 (187002)
02-20-2005 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-20-2005 2:23 PM


In my imaginary Admin mode
While the title is fine, the content is very lacking. Could you please provide some more information regarding this supposed UFO sighting? You could provide a link or/and explain what happened and the significance of this.
Thanks.
Added by edit.
Looks like Ned edited the post and added in a link. However, you still have some work to be done. How are we suppose to know if those photos are for real or fake? What is the difference between this particular sighting and the hundreds of other supposed sightings each year?
This message has been edited by Jacen, 02-20-2005 14:36 AM

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 23 (187005)
02-20-2005 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-20-2005 2:23 PM


Non-imaginary-admin mode
http://ufo.whipnet.org/alien.races/alien.species/index.html
I think my link leads to a much more interesting thing.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 23 (187042)
02-20-2005 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-20-2005 2:23 PM


These pictures are fake, though they're supposedly based on eyewitness accounts.
I know this because I remember seeing a TV show about the use of computer graphics to "recreate" UFO sightings, and these were the pictures that they created.
You know, it's impossible to be 20 ft from a camera these days - either somebody's digital camera, or a survellance camera, or the stupid little cameras people have on their cell phones, now. If we can get upskirt photos every time Paris Hilton wears a thong, we should be able to get good UFO shots.

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 5 of 23 (187067)
02-20-2005 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
02-20-2005 5:36 PM


Exactly!! Doesn't it seem odd to you that whenever we have a picture of these ufo's that they're always either out of focus or that they're fake?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 6 of 23 (187130)
02-21-2005 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by coffee_addict
02-20-2005 7:58 PM


Doesn't it seem odd to you that whenever we have a picture of these ufo's that they're always either out of focus or that they're fake?
That doesn't seem odd to me in the least.
What would be odd would be a clear, non-hoax photo of a genuine alien being or vehicle. That would be the odd thing. Crappy hoaxes are exactly what we would expect of the entirety of the "UFO" pehomenon.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 23 (187133)
02-21-2005 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by crashfrog
02-21-2005 2:48 AM


Unremarkable Fotoshop Origins
Hi, Ned! I checked out the pix on the website and read the police dispatch reports from Illinois.
As none of us know these eyewitnesses personally, we can surmise fiction rather than facts, but it is intriguing!
Ned writes:
I'm interested because I once stood next to someone while he was seeing a UFO with windows, flashing "landing lights" and doing amazing maneovers.
This is more interesting to me! Did you know this person? Did you see the same thing that they saw? Did you feel any different? What was your conclusion?
crashfrog writes:
What would be odd would be a clear, non-hoax photo of a genuine alien being or vehicle. That would be the odd thing. Crappy hoaxes are exactly what we would expect of the entirety of the "UFO" pehomenon.
In photography, is it possible to tell if a picture is genuine or a hoax...given todays technology?

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 8 of 23 (187141)
02-21-2005 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
02-21-2005 3:02 AM


Re: Unremarkable Fotoshop Origins
Phatboy writes:
quote:
In photography, is it possible to tell if a picture is genuine or a hoax...given todays technology?
Having once worked for a stock photography agency where cleanup was a regular part of the job, I would say that yes, you can tell. But it requires training (I can see a lot of what is done but I am nowhere near expert at it) and for good touchup jobs, you need really good equipment to get in and see it.
One aspect that is difficult to get around is that it is next to impossible to duplicate lighting conditions. Not only are you dealing with intensity and direction, you're also dealing with color and indirect lighting effects. Light that bounces off the building behind you back onto the subject has a unique signature relating to the composition of the material of the building and its shape. This may be a minor issue, but it comes into play. Atmospheric effects come into play when dealing with large landscapes at long distances. That one picture of the triangular space ship floating in mid air had that as part of the problem: The ship was quite clear while the rest of the shot had a light haze. That easily showed that the ship was pasted in.
Of course, the more degraded the final image, the more these artifacts of compositing become less apparent...but then you also start losing the information of what the picture is supposed to be.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 23 (187149)
02-21-2005 6:50 AM


Yep those look like studio-created images to my untrained eye. But I have looked at a fair number of UFO images available on the web, and I don't think those ones are very good; there are some better ones.
But I'm in much the same boat as Holmes in this regard, bad or maniopulated images would be what I would expect to see. Seldom is such "evidence" as good as footage submitted to the endless home video capture shows.
Lastly, Black Triangle type UFO's now have a known provenance - stealth aircraft like the F117. So, even if we were willing to believe that aliens come to this planet, don't seek to make contact, and don't really try to hide either, we would still be left obliged to assume that there were the stealth black triangles and real UFO black triangles.
There is sopme information on these images provided here:
The St. Clair County Illinois Sightings of January, 2000, 1
Its a reprise of the article but at the bottom discusses how the images were made.
The apparent initial report is found here:
UFO sighting brings media attention, investigative team to Southern Illinois, UFO Casebook Files

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 23 (187191)
02-21-2005 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Rrhain
02-21-2005 4:38 AM


Re: Unremarkable Fotoshop Origins
Thanks for a good and detailed answer! I personally question any photograph these days. With technology, a virtual human will soon be indistinguishable from an actual one....to say nothing of "aliens."

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 23 (187193)
02-21-2005 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-20-2005 2:23 PM


Unidentified Nosy Encounters
Ned writes:
I'm interested because I once stood next to someone while he was seeing a UFO with windows, flashing "landing lights" and doing amazing maneovers.
Tell me more about this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NosyNed, posted 02-20-2005 2:23 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by NosyNed, posted 02-21-2005 10:54 AM Phat has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 12 of 23 (187196)
02-21-2005 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
02-21-2005 10:41 AM


Re: Unidentified Nosy Encounters
I was in my late teens. We had people renting the upstairs of the house (late 20's).
One evening the radio reported sightings of a "flying saucer" over Vancouver. It had windows all around. It was moving at high speeds and performing maneouvers. It had green, red and white flashing lights.
The guy upstairs yelled down that he could see it. I ran up the stairs 3 at a time.
He was looking out his windows facing west across to Vancouver and was jumping up and down, pointing and yelling "Look, look, there it is." (quotation is approximate - it has been a lot of years). I looked and saw nothing.
The sky was clean black after a storm. Half clearn and half cloudy. THere was a considerable wind blowing the low clouds across the sky. There was nothing there.
He reported all that the radio had said: flashing lights, windows, high speed maneouvers. He continued to hop up and down very excited. I moved close to look down his arm. Nothing there.
This went on for 5 or more minutes.
Finally, I realized that there was more than clouds and dark sky there. It had been appearing and disapearing with the clouds but it was so far from what he was describing I didn't even notice it.
Venus, bright white in the clear air. Some appearance of "flashing" due to lighter clouds we could not see.
When I got him to calm down and note that what he was seeing was not moving relative to the buildings in front of us but only relative to the clouds he stopped seeing what he had been reporting.
I will not accept any eye witness reports without some thing a lot more to back them up.
In the case of UFOs it isn't the absense of evidence that gets to me. It is the abundance of evidence of exactly the same type. Anecdotes, poor pictures and the equivalent of crop circles.
Some years later with friends we saw a real UFO. We were in the mountains in the middle of BC. A very bright slightly orange object moved from the zenith to the horizon. Much, much brighter than Venus.
It was way to slow to be a fireball. It was moving in the wrong direction to be a satillite and too fast and bright. We had no idea what it could be. It was definitly NOT a plane.
A week later back in civilization we found that it was the re entry of a Russian satillite in an unusual (I presume spy) orbit.
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 02-21-2005 10:55 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 23 (187216)
02-21-2005 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by NosyNed
02-21-2005 10:54 AM


Re: Unidentified Nosy Encounters
Thanks for sharing, Ned. It reminds us of the power of suggestion in influencing belief.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 14 of 23 (187222)
02-21-2005 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
02-21-2005 1:12 PM


Re: Unidentified Nosy Encounters
*ahem*

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 15 of 23 (187224)
02-21-2005 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by coffee_addict
02-21-2005 1:25 PM


Was it Carl Sagen who said:
Believing is seeing.
About 4 years ago I had another experience of this type:
I was hiking in some wooods near here (UBC) around a small canyon with a group of friends. I was just behind them as we came around a corner near the end. There was a large pond in the trees. It was about 20 m by 40 m or so.
But there had never been any kind of pond there before!! I was flabbergasted! I was about 5 m from the edge. I stood stunned for more than 30 seconds trying to figure out where it could have come from. It had several trees growing from it with ferns at their base. Some other shrubs in it and it reflected the trees, shrubs and a bit of sky.
I turned to call the others to show them. When I turned back it was gone! There was no pond at all. I spent another minute trying to figure out what had happened.
Where the pond used to be was an arm of the canyon. In it were a few trees that had ferns growing on them at the same height. They made little rings of ferns, some growing up and some growin down around a mid point. This was well up the trunk of the trees rooted down in the canyon and somewhat above my head height.
The ferns looked like they were reflected around the midpoint as it if was a water level. The shrubs in the canyon were a bit like those higher up. The tree went up and down throught the line of the ferns on their trunk.
As I came around the corner the ferns drew a line for me as if reflected in a pond. All the rest fell in place. As long as I looked at it it stayed. When I turned away and back the illusion was destroyed and even when I found out way I saw it I could not see the "pond" again, only the idea of the line that was it's surface.
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 02-21-2005 13:34 AM
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 02-21-2005 13:35 AM

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