Creationist Baumgardner: one of the top mainstream mantle/plate tectonics simulators!

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ I don't think that changes the validity of what I said.

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Well the whole point is that what you posted was not valid. Your cartoon version of evolution is a joke. Besides, there are lines of evidence that life arose naturally. There is no evidence for a biblical flood.

^ My cartoon version of evolution? I'm the one sticking to proven evolution - you're the ones extrapolating from beak shape changes to eyes, complete with optic nerves, evolving from skin protrusions!![This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-22-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ I don't think that changes the validity of what I said.

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You mean, except that NOTHING supports your claim and every evidence we have points to it being patently absurd?------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ My cartoon version of evolution? I'm the one sticking to proven evolution - you're the ones extrapolating from beak shape changes to eyes, complete with optic nerves, evolving from skin protrusions!!

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Yes, another cartoon version. "Life from slime" and "eyes from skin." Are you sure you don't want to add "molecules to man" to your arsenal. You haven't even a hint that these are gross oversimplifications (another propaganda tactic), that do not represent anyone's evolutionary progression. By the way, now you are saying that evolution is proven??

^ Of course evolution is proven. There isn't a molecular biologist on earth who could deny it. We can watch bacteria evolving in front of our eyes. We just always end up with the same set of genes.So if eyes didn't evolve from skin protrusions then what? The anscestors of animals with eyes didn't have eyes, or optic nerves.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-25-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ Of course evolution is proven. There isn't a molecular biologist on earth who could deny it. We can watch bacteria evolving in front of our eyes. We just always end up with the same set of genes.

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So if eyes didn't evolve from skin protrusions then what? The descendants of naimlas with eyes didn't have eyes, or optic nerves.

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[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-24-2002]

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What does any of this side show have to do with the topic at hand? Have you also learned the Gish gallop as part of your creationist internship?CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Yes this is all very constraining. By maybe, in the wash, it all just works out and the ark really was there to protect those on baord from a truly bizarre event. And maybe we now know the real reason for the marine extinctions. Only small pockets of life survived to repopulate.

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So I'll believe that. I'll beleive that the Bible is not kidding in talking about a recent global flood.

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You can believe that life evolved from slime.

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It's faith for both of us.

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[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-21-2002]

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Way to go, Tranquility Base. Retreat to a miracle then change the subject when Baumgardner’s runaway model doesn’t stand up to critical examination.This horse is pretty much dead from boiling.

^ Interestingly I didn't retreat to a miracle of the sort you are insinuating. The occupants of the ark 'somehow' surviving I suspect was due to the dedicated preparation. Sure, 'God was with them' but they still had to go to the bother of bulding the ark, collecting the food and applying the pitch. If Noah et al didn't do this then we would not be here typing away.And the species that didn't become extinct are the species that didn't become extinct!

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ Interestingly I didn't retreat to a miracle of the sort you are insinuating. The occupants of the ark 'somehow' surviving I suspect was due to the dedicated preparation. Sure, 'God was with them' but they still had to go to the bother of bulding the ark, collecting the food and applying the pitch. If Noah et al didn't do this then we would not be here typing away.

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Why don’t you tell us how to prepare wooden ark to withstand atmospheric temperatures in excess of 100 C in a steam atmosphere? Remember it has to have a widow. I think you need more than one miracle. [quote]And the species that didn't become extinct are the species that didn't become extinct![/B][/QUOTE]And of course they just happened to either survive or go extinct in such a way as to make it look like they had died out over geological time,http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/fish.htmfor both fish and land animals. Here are some data on mammalian genera from Glenn’s page.Triassic there are 4 genera--no living members
Jurassic, 43 genera-no living members ,Cretaceous 36 genera-no living members, Paleocene 213 genera-no living members, Eocene 569 genera-3 extant genera, Oligocene 494 genera 11 extant genera, Miocene 749 genera 57 extant genera,Pliocene762 genera 133 extant genera, Pleistocene, 830 genera 417 extant generaBut the main point that has been hammered on again and again is that there should be NO LIFE ON EARTH if runway subduction had occured. You need miracles to save Noah but you also need miracles to save marine life. You can retreat to miracles all you like but you just continue to prove that creation science is an oxymoron.Randy

^ That data of yours looks very consistent with a global flood. The deeper we first see them in the flood rocks the less likely they are to be alive today.

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ That data of yours looks very consistent with a global flood. The deeper we first see them in the flood rocks the less likely they are to be alive today.

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TB, honestly, this makes no sense.At least take the effort to point out how this data is consistent with a flood.PS... You used to have much better flights of fancy. Have you been taking your meds again? ------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

^ The earlier something succumed to the flood the less likely it is to have survived to the top. Of course this is a hiuge approximation becasue it is convoluted with biogeography and hydrodynamic sorting but nevertheless it is consistent with the flood. The coming and going distribution of any species in the fossil record could either be the flood or geolgoical time.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-26-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ The earlier something succumed to the flood the less likely it is to have survived to the top. Of course this is a hiuge approximation becasue it is convoluted with biogeography and hydrodynamic sorting but nevertheless it is consistent with the flood. The coming and going distribution of any species in the fossil record could either be the flood or geolgoical time.

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[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 08-26-2002]

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TB, Neither biogeographics nor sorting bear out your assertions. You have also claimed that those species most capable of fleeing (I am assuming to higher ground) were killed last. How do you explain the correspondence of juveniles with adults. I could see a larger number of mothers with juveniles (although not anything approaching what we actually see) but males generally do not stick around anywhere near as much as the mothers. There is no real crossing in statographic boundries of adult and juvenile.Come on TB, if you want to cite divine intervention fine. But between the heat, acid and stratography there is very little in the scientific realm which supports your assertions on this thread.------------------
"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur
Taz

I just read an article on T-Rex and it stated that juveniles do get mistaken for alternative species especially if separated stratigraphically.If anyone wants to further discuss flood ordering I suggest you start a thread on that elsewhere.

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
If anyone wants to further discuss flood ordering I suggest you start a thread on that elsewhere.

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Okie-dokey...------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com