Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 114 (8789 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 09-22-2017 4:42 PM
355 online now:
Astrophile, Aussie, Diomedes, halibut, jar, JonF, ooh-child, Phat (AdminPhat), Tangle (9 members, 346 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Porkncheese
Post Volume:
Total: 819,303 Year: 23,909/21,208 Month: 1,874/2,468 Week: 383/822 Day: 43/66 Hour: 1/0

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1213
14
15161718Next
Author Topic:   Why Do People Steal?
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 196 of 262 (643213)
12-05-2011 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by crashfrog
12-03-2011 9:47 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Sure, McDonalds makes cheap-ass burgers out of low-quality beef that normally wouldn't make it to retail.

It's cheaper to make your child lunch and dinner than to buy them McDonlads. The fact that the food is of low-quality makes it even worse as a source of food for children.

The main reason to target children is to gain loyal adult consumers who have been hooked since their childhood.

Hook the child gain a customer for life.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by crashfrog, posted 12-03-2011 9:47 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 4:49 PM onifre has responded

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 262 (643214)
12-05-2011 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by onifre
12-05-2011 4:45 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
It's cheaper to make your child lunch and dinner than to buy them McDonlads.

Only if your time isn't worth anything. (Which is frequently assumed to be the case of women, which is why family meals have long been assumed to be the woman's work.) At the median US income it's more expensive to cook one meal - of just rice and beans! - than it is to grab McDonalds on the way home from work.

Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 4:45 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:00 PM crashfrog has responded
 Message 200 by NoNukes, posted 12-05-2011 5:01 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 198 of 262 (643217)
12-05-2011 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
12-05-2011 1:09 PM


Re: I was high, officer. The twinkies jumped into my pocket
Glad you liked it, Phat...

Anyone interested, here's the trailer:

It's an interesting experiment, enjoyed at it's fullest when high.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 12-05-2011 1:09 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 199 of 262 (643219)
12-05-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 4:49 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
At the median US income it's more expensive to cook one meal - of just rice and beans! - than it is to grab McDonalds on the way home from work.

That's ridicuous unless someone is seriously fucking with the numbers. Plus your link showed nothing I don't know what it was for?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 4:49 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 5:22 PM onifre has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9921
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 200 of 262 (643220)
12-05-2011 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 4:49 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Only if your time isn't worth anything. (Which is frequently assumed to be the case of women, which is why family meals have long been assumed to be the woman's work.)

I'd take it even further than this. It's pretty expensive to fix yourself anything like a healthy meal at home. What's relatively cheap is filling your kids up on empty calories and fatty, sugary garbage.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 4:49 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:16 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 201 of 262 (643221)
12-05-2011 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by New Cat's Eye
12-05-2011 11:22 AM


Its sleazy and intrusive. We've banned that sort of market from cigarette companies because their product are unhealthy, and I think the same case could be made against fast food.

cigarette companies marketed to kids? not in your lifetime. maybe in the 1940s.

I think your sort of idea of banning everything that is unhealthy is a dangerous way of thinking.

A flippant response like that makes it sound like you don't have much experience with children...

Why is that?

McDonalds is easy for the parents too. And kids tend to get what they want. Spoiling their desires with cheap gimmicks like clowns and playpens could be called "evil" when your product is designed to be all taste and no nutrition while min/maxing cost and profit. Certainly, trying to get kids to eat healthier food would be a nobler cause.

Well my parents didn't do that. Maybe I am spoiled by having really good parents. I shouldn't assume that your parents did the right thing.

You're arguing "Is" versus "Ought".

I am not following you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-05-2011 11:22 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2011 10:30 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 202 of 262 (643224)
12-05-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by NoNukes
12-05-2011 5:01 PM


Cheap dining
I'd take it even further than this. It's pretty expensive to fix yourself anything like a healthy meal at home.

Absolutely not. Just google cheap healthy eating. There's a bunch of website doing just that, showing people how to feed their family for cheap. Very cheap. Average dinner at McDonalds cost almost $25 dollars - See here. Many websites are showing meals for the family for less than $10 - See here - and take about 10 minutes to make. I've spent that kind of time in a drive thru during rush hour.

We just don't want to do the work.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by NoNukes, posted 12-05-2011 5:01 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-05-2011 5:32 PM onifre has responded

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 203 of 262 (643228)
12-05-2011 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by onifre
12-05-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
That's ridicuous unless someone is seriously fucking with the numbers.

No fucking - just the assumption of two hours of shopping, cooking, and cleanup at the median American wage, plus the cost of food. I think it's fairly defensible to suggest that a home-cooked, from-scratch dinner for four requires two hours of labor to shop, cook, and do the dishes. In fact I'd say that two hours is fairly generous for your side.

Like I said, it's only "cheaper" if your time is worthless.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:00 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:28 PM crashfrog has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 204 of 262 (643230)
12-05-2011 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 5:22 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Like I said, it's only "cheaper" if your time is worthless.

I don't get how that's relevant. Shopping on the weekend and cooking 10-15 minute meals when your off of work isn't costing anything.

Do the dishes? What are kids for?

As a parent, you'd go broke feeding your kids McDonalds for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 5:22 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 5:33 PM onifre has responded

    
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 205 of 262 (643233)
12-05-2011 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by onifre
12-05-2011 5:16 PM


Re: Cheap dining
sorry man, but I think crash has this one. I hate to agree with that person for anything, but fast food is cheaper than making food.

and a lot faster. just get everything off the $1 menu, everyone get's a Mcdouble or a McChicken, and you are drinking water.

4 people x $1 = $4.00 let's say $4.50 with tax. you can feed the whole family for under $5 and it took 3minutes to prepare, and serve to them.

I noticed in your link there was a meal that cost $1.11 per person, yet it took ALL DAY LONG to prepare. that is kind of impossible when both parents are working to pay the bills, and the children are at school all day. sure the Au pair could make that cheap dish but if you have an Au Pair then why are you concerned with cheap meals?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:16 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:46 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 221 by 1.61803, posted 12-06-2011 5:16 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 206 of 262 (643234)
12-05-2011 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by onifre
12-05-2011 5:28 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Shopping on the weekend and cooking 10-15 minute meals when your off of work isn't costing anything.

No, it's costing your time. And again your time is only free if your time is worthless. Yours probably is, but the median American's time is worth something like $16 an hour.

As a parent, you'd go broke feeding your kids McDonalds for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Yes, you would. But if the alternative means - as it does for many Americans - two less paid hours at work, then the cost of not eating McDonalds is even greater.

And you know what? Your kids won't fucking complain about eating McNuggets, but they might very well revolt at whatever revolting slop you're able to throw together for 5 dollars and 15 minutes. Talk to a parent - shutting your kids the fuck up about dinner is worth a pretty substantial dollar amount.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:28 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 6:01 PM crashfrog has responded
 Message 217 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2011 10:38 AM crashfrog has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 207 of 262 (643237)
12-05-2011 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Artemis Entreri
12-05-2011 5:32 PM


Re: Cheap dining
4 people x $1 = $4.00 let's say $4.50 with tax. you can feed the whole family for under $5 and it took 3minutes to prepare, and serve to them.

This is insanity! One burger for each member of your family is "feeding your family dinner"...?

Tell you what, even cheaper... The arab convenient store by my house sells Ramen noodles 2 for $1. Family of 4 for 2 bucks! I win!

Or, even cheaper yet! They sell 2 ice cream sandwishes for 50 cents. Family of four for $1, even better! I win again!

I think a dinner should be a dinner, not a burger, or one Ramen noodle cup, or an ice cream sanwich.

I noticed in your link there was a meal that cost $1.11 per person, yet it took ALL DAY LONG to prepare.

Crock pot meals cook themselves slowly so you can go to work. Good for college kids too.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-05-2011 5:32 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-06-2011 9:48 AM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 208 of 262 (643241)
12-05-2011 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 5:33 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
No, it's costing your time. And again your time is only free if your time is worthless.

Your time off of work is worthless, unless you fuck with the numbers. Instead of sitting on the couch watching crap, they could go grocery shopping.

Plus, here in NYC I shop daily walking home. It takes me about the same time as stopping at a fast food joint.

two less paid hours at work

Shop after work or on the weekend.

And you know what? Your kids won't fucking complain about eating McNuggets, but they might very well revolt at whatever revolting slop you're able to throw together for 5 dollars and 15 minutes

No one said $5 in 15 minutes. The average dinner at McDonalds, as I linked, is $25 - that's just dinner. I can makes a cheaper, better meal for $10 - my amazing spaghetti that my kids LOVE - and save $15 bucks. That's just an example. I can make many more meals for $10 - $15 which still saves me money.

Talk to a parent

Don't need to, I am one. You should talk to parents as you have no fucking clue what you're going on about.

shutting your kids the fuck up about dinner is worth a pretty substantial dollar amount.

Shoving McDonalds in their mouth so they won't complain is not only irresponsible, but shows you don't know how to parent. My kids have never complained to me about any meal I made for them, especially when I would include them in the cooking process.

If you start them off with good, healthy food, they actually reject the fast food garbage.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 5:33 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 6:32 PM onifre has responded

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 209 of 262 (643248)
12-05-2011 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by onifre
12-05-2011 6:01 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Plus, here in NYC I shop daily walking home.

Then you're not exactly the average use case, are you? Most people live somewhere where they literally can't walk to the grocery store, so they have to drive. And I bet you're not paying a dollar for a can of green beans in downtown NYC, are you? Everybody knows how the price of food doubles or triples when you have to buy it from a bodega instead of from Megabox Mart or whatever you have out there (Giant, I think?)

Shop after work or on the weekend.

After work might be 7pm for someone who works first and second shifts. Doing the cooking and shopping might mean your kids don't get dinner till 8 or 8:30. I think a lot of people would consider that just way too late, especially if your kids got home at 3 and have to wait five hours for dinner.

Look, Oni, the poors aren't stupid. There's a reason that they've not embraced vast home cooked meals as a means to solve the food expenditure problem, and the reason is that contrary to everything you've said it's actually not at all cheaper to cook your own meals. The documentary Food, Inc has a really powerful segment where a working-class Hispanic family compares their usual meal of Burger King dollar menu items to what they could buy at a neighborhood grocery, and its astounding how much more expensive everything is at the grocery. Four oranges wind up costing more than an entire family meal at Burger King (which is, now, about ten dollars.) Trying to assemble an actual balanced meal of fresh vegetables and lean proteins is ruinous, it costs more than their entire food budget for the week.

When people turn to fast food instead of home cooking, it's not because McDonalds is in there lacing each burger with crack cocaine, its because McDonalds is presenting an unbeatable value proposition in most areas of the country and at most income levels. It's a meal, guaranteed to satiate without breaking the bank. No dishes or labor required. For a lot of people that makes real economic sense compared to paying double the cost and time to roll the dice on a home-cooked meal that, very likely, nobody is going to like.

Oni, look. I'm glad for you and for your kids that you have the time and energy to cook nutritious meals for them. That's a net win for you and for them and I'm glad it works out. But surely you can look around your NYC neighborhood and see why that solution isn't going to work for many of your neighbors. It has nothing to do with any nefarious deeds by McDonalds and everything to do with the capabilities and leftover energy of people who have to work 10-16 hour days just to barely make it.

Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 6:01 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by hooah212002, posted 12-05-2011 7:19 PM crashfrog has not yet responded
 Message 219 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 3:45 PM crashfrog has responded

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 435 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 210 of 262 (643260)
12-05-2011 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 6:32 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
especially if your kids got home at 3 and have to wait five hours for dinner.

If they're too young to fend for themselves, they're too young to be home alone......


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 6:32 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
1213
14
15161718Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017