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Author Topic:   Why Do People Steal?
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 211 of 262 (643311)
12-06-2011 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by onifre
12-05-2011 5:46 PM


Re: Cheap dining
Tell you what, even cheaper... The arab convenient store by my house sells Ramen noodles 2 for $1. Family of 4 for 2 bucks! I win!

Or, even cheaper yet! They sell 2 ice cream sandwishes for 50 cents. Family of four for $1, even better! I win again!

its not about winning, if that is why you are here then you have come to the wrong place.

I think a dinner should be a dinner, not a burger, or one Ramen noodle cup, or an ice cream sanwich.

oh now the semantics of what a dinner is. I think a burger counts. Maybe rich people like you from Miami have a five course dinner, but at the trailer park in southern Illinois a burger is just dandy.

Crock pot meals cook themselves slowly so you can go to work. Good for college kids too.

I don't think its safe to leave something on all day long, i could burn the trailer down. Anyway I don't own a crock pot, so I'd have to add that to the cost. Crock Pot


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by onifre, posted 12-05-2011 5:46 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 10:07 AM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 213 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 10:08 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 212 of 262 (643317)
12-06-2011 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Artemis Entreri
12-06-2011 9:48 AM


Re: Cheap dining
I think a burger counts.

Then so does a bowl of Ramen Noodles, and you make that at home, and it's cheaper yet than McDonalds.

Maybe rich people like you from Miami have a five course dinner, but at the trailer park in southern Illinois a burger is just dandy.

Oh yeah baby, we gots electricity, picture boxes and indoor plumbing too. You know how awesome we kids of immigrant parents with factory jobs live! Eat'n spam and bologne like we were the Rockefeller's!

I don't think its safe to leave something on all day long, i could burn the trailer down.

A crock pot won't burn anything down. If your electricity is that faulty in your trailer, there's a bunch of things that would cause an electrical fire before a crock pot.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-06-2011 9:48 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-06-2011 10:17 AM onifre has acknowledged this reply

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 213 of 262 (643318)
12-06-2011 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Artemis Entreri
12-06-2011 9:48 AM


Re: Cheap dining
ts not about winning

It's all about winning. #TigerBlood

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-06-2011 9:48 AM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-06-2011 10:16 AM onifre has not yet responded

    
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 214 of 262 (643323)
12-06-2011 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by onifre
12-06-2011 10:08 AM


Re: Cheap dining
haha your so funny.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 10:08 AM onifre has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 215 of 262 (643324)
12-06-2011 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by onifre
12-06-2011 10:07 AM


Re: Cheap dining
Then so does a bowl of Ramen Noodles, and you make that at home, and it's cheaper yet than McDonalds.

sure. if you have time to go to the store then Ramen is cheaper.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 10:07 AM onifre has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11707
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 216 of 262 (643328)
12-06-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Artemis Entreri
12-05-2011 5:08 PM


cigarette companies marketed to kids? not in your lifetime. maybe in the 1940s.

Until 1997...

quote:
In 1991, the Journal of the American Medical Association published a study showing that by age six nearly as many children could correctly respond that "Joe Camel" was associated with cigarettes as could respond that the Disney Channel logo was associated with Mickey Mouse, and alleged that the "Joe Camel" campaign was targeting children...

...

Internal documents produced to the court in Mangini v. R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, San Francisco Superior Court No. 959516, demonstrated the industry's interest in targeting children as future smokers. The importance of the youth market was illustrated in a 1974 presentation by RJR's Vice-President of Marketing who explained that the "young adult market . . . represent[s] tomorrow's cigarette business. As this 14-24 age group matures, they will account for a key share of the total cigarette volume - for at least the next 25 years." A 1974 memo by the R. J. Reynolds Research Department points out that capturing the young adult market is vital because "virtually all [smokers] start by the age of 25" and "most smokers begin smoking regularly and select a usual brand at or before the age of 18."

...

In July 1997, under pressure from the impending Mangini trial, Congress and various public-interest groups, RJR announced it would settle out of court and voluntarily end its Joe Camel campaign.
sauce


I think your sort of idea of banning everything that is unhealthy is a dangerous way of thinking.

Nobody's talking about banning everything that is unhealthy. My point was about marketing. Marketing unhealthy and addictive products to children... like McDonald's does.

You're arguing "Is" versus "Ought".

I am not following you?

I'm talking about the way things ought to be (we shouldn't market bad shit to kids) and you're talking about the way things are (bad things are marketed to kids).

It doesn't address the issue. Its a whole thing though, if you wanna read about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought_problem


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-05-2011 5:08 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-07-2011 12:02 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11707
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 217 of 262 (643330)
12-06-2011 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 5:33 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
No, it's costing your time. And again your time is only free if your time is worthless. Yours probably is, but the median American's time is worth something like $16 an hour.

Are you saying it cost me over $100 every night because I go to sleep?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 5:33 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by crashfrog, posted 12-06-2011 5:27 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9756
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 218 of 262 (643338)
12-06-2011 11:39 AM


Getting Ready For Topic Summation Mode
I started this topic to basically discuss the reasons that people steal and the ways in which they justify it.

quote:
I work in a large grocery store and am constantly amazed at how many people steal from us. Thieves transcend ethnic, age, and socioeconomic bounds, but I would say that the vast majority of them are poor.

Whats wrong with these people? Even if they believe that Robin Hood would do the same thing to corporate behemoths, they need to realize that some of us depend on our livelihood from these giant Corporations, and that they are essentially stealing from us.

Note: I am assuming for the sake of this topic that any of us at EvC could be secret shoplifters...so speak out as if you were one. Tell me what got inside your head that said that it was ok to steal?


In a sense, McDonald's could be said to "steal" from the American Public by offering us a time-saving though not-as-nutritious alternative which brings them a lot of money. Though they do steal from us by brainwashing our kids into nagging us to buy their products.

In summation, getting back to the grocery store that I work at, I feel that the corporate bosses exploit the labor. They could care less about us making a fair wage. They are beholden to themselves and the stockholders, yet labor has no special value for the company.

Hence, when we see customers steal, we feel as if they are essentially stealing from us since they steal from the bottom line which puts even more pressure on the corporation to reduce labor costs.


Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 3:47 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 219 of 262 (643391)
12-06-2011 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by crashfrog
12-05-2011 6:32 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
And I bet you're not paying a dollar for a can of green beans in downtown NYC, are you? Everybody knows how the price of food doubles or triples when you have to buy it from a bodega instead of from Megabox Mart or whatever you have out there (Giant, I think?)

I go to Trader Joes. It's cheap, compared to Whole Foods, and not much more expensive than Wal-Mart.

After work might be 7pm for someone who works first and second shifts.

Or not for those who work other hours. Like anyone in the construction business who work 7-330, or teachers, or people who work in a bank, or postal service, etc.

There's just as many people working normal shifts than there are working late shifts. But in any case, there is time when you are off work, whatever those hours may be, where you can shop. Wal-Marts are open 24 hours in many places.

Doing the cooking and shopping might mean your kids don't get dinner till 8 or 8:30. I think a lot of people would consider that just way too late, especially if your kids got home at 3 and have to wait five hours for dinner.

So...do what my ex wife does. She makes the food, places it in plastic containers and freezes it. When my kids get home and are hungry (they are 15 and 13 yrs old) they microwave it themselves and have home cooked meal made at a very cheap cost. Not only cheap in current cost but in the long run with health issues due to fast-food-like diets.

Trying to assemble an actual balanced meal of fresh vegetables and lean proteins is ruinous, it costs more than their entire food budget for the week.

That's nonsense. I did it, I lived it. I balanced the cost myself. It was cheaper to buy food and cook it. Kids don't go to McDonalds and ask for one single burger from the dollar menu, at least not my kids. They want full meals, fries soda and sometimes dessert. I can give them an equally satisfying meal for a cheaper cost from the grocery store.

Baring the extreme case when Ramen noodles is the call for dinner and all one can afford, the avergae middle class family would go broke dining out.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by crashfrog, posted 12-05-2011 6:32 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by crashfrog, posted 12-06-2011 5:39 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 482 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 220 of 262 (643392)
12-06-2011 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Phat
12-06-2011 11:39 AM


Re: Getting Ready For Topic Summation Mode
Hence, when we see customers steal, we feel as if they are essentially stealing from us since they steal from the bottom line which puts even more pressure on the corporation to reduce labor costs.

That's a great game corporations play: hurt you, the lowest on the rung when the poorest of the poor steal. When we turn on each other they win.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Phat, posted 12-06-2011 11:39 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2714
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 221 of 262 (643397)
12-06-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Artemis Entreri
12-05-2011 5:32 PM


Re: Cheap dining
If people have reached the point where they can not go out and buy some food and take it home and cook it and sit down and eat it with the family, then what is the point of all that hard work? If our time is measured by how much we could be making while at work, and how much we can save by eating fast food something is skewed. imo. I bought 20 pounds of rice at Sams club for 10 dollars. Rice cooks fast and easy. It is easy to add a meat and some veggies. It does not have to cost alot of money to cook meals at home. It does take some effort and planning and sometimes innovation. I have a freezer and buy cheap cuts of meat, and always on the look out for deals. We eat left overs and waste as little as possible. It is rewarding to see everyone eating together at home and it brings the family closer. No matter what happens, I try to have that be the goal, a measure of success.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-05-2011 5:32 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 262 (643402)
12-06-2011 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2011 10:38 AM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Are you saying it cost me over $100 every night because I go to sleep?

Yeah. I mean, you could be working, right?

You need sleep. It's valuable. Why does it surprise you to learn that it has an opportunity cost?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2011 10:38 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2011 5:30 PM crashfrog has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11707
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 223 of 262 (643403)
12-06-2011 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by crashfrog
12-06-2011 5:27 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Yeah. I mean, you could be working, right?

No, I'm unable to work 24 hours a day... Too, there's upper limits on the number of hours I'm legally allowed to put in per week.

Not every hour of your life is worth that $16.

You need sleep. It's valuable. Why does it surprise you to learn that it has an opportunity cost?

Cause it doesn't


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by crashfrog, posted 12-06-2011 5:27 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by crashfrog, posted 12-06-2011 5:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 226 by crashfrog, posted 12-06-2011 5:46 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 262 (643406)
12-06-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by onifre
12-06-2011 3:45 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
That's nonsense. I did it, I lived it.

Well, look. Watch the movie and tell me what you think they're lying about. Don't you think its possible that food costs different amounts depending where you live?

I don't mean to endorse every fact in "Food, Inc" - in many ways I think it paints too narrow a picture of American food and its production - but it's certainly correct about how many Americans live in "food deserts" and how preparing your own home-cooked meals isn't a winning short-term value proposition against fast food. That's a well-known sociological fact that your own experience doesn't refute. I'm glad you make it work, but it just doesn't work for an awful lot of people. I mean, its great that you have weekends off! That's not true of a lot of Americans. The time they're supposed to be cooking is the time they're either working or sleeping, both of which they have to do.

Baring the extreme case when Ramen noodles is the call for dinner and all one can afford, the avergae middle class family would go broke dining out.

But we're not always talking about middle class families, are we?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by onifre, posted 12-06-2011 3:45 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by onifre, posted 12-07-2011 12:20 AM crashfrog has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 262 (643408)
12-06-2011 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2011 5:30 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
No, I'm unable to work 24 hours a day...

But you could work 16 hours a day. You could probably get by on 5 hours of sleep. It might make you fucking miserable and terrible at both your jobs but you could do it. You just don't want to - the money wouldn't be worth it to you. That's perfectly fine - there's more to life than money. Spend yours as you see fit.

Like I say, sleep is valuable. Why does it surprise you to learn that you pay something for it?

Cause it doesn't

Of course it does. You're saying you've never in your life slept instead of doing something else? You're saying you've never in your life decided to get a good night's sleep instead of getting a second job? You don't know anybody who works 10-12 hour days and only gets 5-6 hours of sleep a night?

Look, it's taking money out of your pocket. It obviously is. I'm not saying it's not worth it - where are you getting that? - but just like how food costs money, sleep costs money because it takes up some of your time. Just like your leisure hours cost you money. I don't understand the problem you have with this. Clearly you're poorer because you sleep instead of taking a second job. Clearly, that's worth it to you. What's the issue?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2011 5:30 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
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