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Author Topic:   The Palin Mistake
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 91 of 140 (488110)
11-07-2008 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by fallacycop
11-07-2008 5:30 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
fallacycop writes:
Even if we take the second sense of the word deploy (and I do think that's the one Biden intended), it still isn't a gaffe because Pakstan did indeed deploy nuclear wepons in a test site. (But not against other countries).
So you think Biden meant that Pakistan actually used nukes against its enemies? That's what bothered me from his statement. I'm more educated now on the ambiguous meaning of "deployment," but is Biden?

The first lesson of philosophy is that we may all be mistaken. ”Will Durant

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by fallacycop, posted 11-07-2008 5:30 PM fallacycop has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 92 of 140 (488114)
11-07-2008 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by LudoRephaim
11-07-2008 1:16 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
I knew that lefties would pounce on Palin, and Evc, as shown in the replies on this thread, are no different.
Would this be because - in your heart - you knew she was not up to the job? Or do you think we would have "pounced" no matter how qualified she was?
If the first, then why the problem. If the later then you insult us with lack of objectivity.
... make Joe Biden's word mishap ("Pakistan has deployed nuclear weapons"... Okay, ...
Has this been cleared up for you? Does this mean that you regularly listen to news sources that misrepresent stuff like this and don't validate what they say against reality?
The blame goes to ultra-right wingers like CBN (and Limbaugh, whom i'll take a guess that he did the following too), people who bashed McCain througout the campaign, a man that was the choice of their OWN DARN PARTY (ODP)...
Do you mean they should toe the party line no matter what their personal thoughts are?
Then at least we agree that these people are not sources of facts, but that they are propagandists. If not, then we can agree that they are opinionated people with bad opinions.
But she was also targeted by righters; several people in my own Church (mostly Republicans) didn't like her, one of them (at least) because she was (get this!) PENTECOSTAL! That would no doubt be echoed in other Churches (Southern Bapist, and the like) nationwide.
Perhaps that tells you that religion is not a measure for ability in government, and that what a person's religion is should not matter.
The blame for the republican failure in this election goes to Bush JR and his 8 year reign, the economic collapse, ...
Yes, the fault is incompetence already elected to the white house - why follow one bad example with another? The fact remains that the Bush\Bush\Reagan economic policies bankrupted the lower classes and that bankruptcy trickled up to take down the giants. "Trickle down" is a fallacy, republican economic policy is invalid.
I put the blame in YOUR direction. So don't btch about the next four years!
I take it from this that you think the invasion of Iraq was a good idea, record unemployment is a good thing for america, that wage stagnation should be the new american dream, and financial collapse of the US economy is for our benefit? In my mind the last eight years have been the worst in american history and they fully demonstrate the error of using ideology to drive policy rather than reason.
In contrast, I expect to see measurable improvement in the US economy, better US diplomacy and increased international cooperation in resolving the Iraq issue/s, vast improvement in how America is perceived abroad, a reduction in terrorism, and improved personal living standards for all in the next four years.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : added
Edited by RAZD, : clarity

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 93 of 140 (488116)
11-07-2008 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by kuresu
11-07-2008 5:30 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
Actually, it was in reference to the "real American . . .small town America" statement Palin made.
I stand corrected. I wasn't sure if it was the rape kit issue, the "real america" issue or the sneer about Obama being a community organizer, there are just so many reasons for a Fuck You Palin.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by kuresu, posted 11-07-2008 5:30 PM kuresu has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 94 of 140 (488137)
11-07-2008 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by New Cat's Eye
11-07-2008 10:05 AM


This is a source for the source.
Palin Didn't Know Africa Is A Continent, Says Fox News Reporter (VIDEO) | HuffPost Latest News
There was a clip from fox news.. so who knows?

This message is a reply to:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 95 of 140 (488141)
11-08-2008 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Fosdick
11-07-2008 6:35 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
So you think Biden meant that Pakistan actually used nukes against its enemies?
If I remember it correctly, Biden does not say "against their enemies". He simply said "deployed wepons". And that much is indeed true, So I don't see anything wrong with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Fosdick, posted 11-07-2008 6:35 PM Fosdick has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 96 of 140 (488144)
11-08-2008 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by fallacycop
11-08-2008 12:34 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
Here's the quote again from that debate:
quote:
Well, they're both extremely dangerous. I always am focused, as you know Gwen, I have been focusing on for a long time, along with Barack on Pakistan. Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons. Pakistan's weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean. Iran getting a nuclear weapon would be very, very destabilizing. They are more than - they are not close to getting a nuclear weapon that's able to be deployed. So they're both very dangerous. They both would be game changers.
While I think he simply meant "ready to fire at any minute", your explanation could also be true. He does indeed simply say "deployed" not "deployed against....".

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 97 of 140 (488167)
11-08-2008 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Huntard
11-08-2008 5:11 AM


Biden's "deployment"
Huntard writes:
While I think he simply meant "ready to fire at any minute", your explanation could also be true. He does indeed simply say "deployed" not "deployed against....".
After thinking it over, I have to agree that Biden's use of the term was correct. For me it was more of an knee-jerk reaction to hear a senior statesman talk about deploying nuclear weapons. It carried, for me at least, an image of nukes in flight. But that was probably an emotional override of my good judgment.
”FTF

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 98 of 140 (488186)
11-08-2008 2:54 PM


Biden aside, I have a confession to make now that the election is over and we know who the winner is.
I stated before that I was hoping for McCain to win to give Hillary another chance in 4 years. Right at the last moment, I switched my stance on it. Frankly, Palin scares the hell out of me. If McCain got elected, Palin would have been an inch from being President of the United States. This thought sent a chill down my spine and I found myself almost broken down to tears of relief when Obama was officially declared President Elect. I cheered not because I wanted Obama to win so badly. I cheered because the United States, my country which I love so much, have been spared of having a brainless, ignorant, egoistic maniac as the Vice President that will always be one 72-yr old's heartbeat away from being President of MY COUNTRY.

Replies to this message:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 99 of 140 (488192)
11-08-2008 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Taz
11-08-2008 2:54 PM


Did you vote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Taz, posted 11-08-2008 2:54 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 100 of 140 (488204)
11-08-2008 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by fallacycop
11-08-2008 4:10 PM


Nope. First time I've not voted ever since it became legal for me to vote. That said, it doesn't mean I don't hope one way or the other.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Huntard, posted 11-09-2008 3:14 AM Taz has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 101 of 140 (488247)
11-09-2008 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Taz
11-08-2008 5:36 PM


May I ask why you didn't vote? Did you really think Obama was such a bad pick for your country?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Taz, posted 11-08-2008 5:36 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 102 of 140 (488260)
11-09-2008 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Huntard
11-09-2008 3:14 AM


Not that bad, I guess. 3 reasons why I didn't vote.
(1) I'm a disgruntled Clinton supporter.
(2) I live in Illinois, a state that is blue no matter what happens.
(3) Currently, I feel my vote doesn't count at all. After all, that's what the electoral system does.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by onifre, posted 11-09-2008 12:45 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 104 by Coragyps, posted 11-09-2008 2:59 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 105 by fallacycop, posted 11-09-2008 6:01 PM Taz has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 103 of 140 (488276)
11-09-2008 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Taz
11-09-2008 9:29 AM


(3) Currently, I feel my vote doesn't count at all. After all, that's what the electoral system does.
I couldn't agree with you more. I too did not vote.
Also, anyone who was following the election could clearly see that Obama was going to win. You had to sift through the bs on tv to see it but, it was at least clear to me that he would take the presidency.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Taz, posted 11-09-2008 9:29 AM Taz has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 104 of 140 (488288)
11-09-2008 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Taz
11-09-2008 9:29 AM


Currently, I feel my vote doesn't count at all.
And mine didn't count either, but it still contributed to to 20% of voters in this county that went for our new president-elect. And shit, we got texas up to 45% blue!
I lost all faith in the electoral system in 1968, five days after I turned 21, when the choices on the ballot were Humphery, Nixon, and Wallace with no provision for me to write in Eldridge Cleaver.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 105 of 140 (488296)
11-09-2008 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Taz
11-09-2008 9:29 AM


(1) I'm a disgruntled Clinton supporter.
Tough.
(2) I live in Illinois, a state that is blue no matter what happens.
(3) Currently, I feel my vote doesn't count at all. After all, that's what the electoral system does.
What's the difference between (2) and (3)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Taz, posted 11-09-2008 9:29 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Taz, posted 11-14-2008 11:24 PM fallacycop has not replied

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