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Author Topic:   Senator Al Franken?
Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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(1)
Message 121 of 212 (823860)
11-18-2017 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Minnemooseus
11-17-2017 11:08 PM


Re: Painful as it is - Bump
I don't know the specifics of Franken's case, but it does seem that more women are speaking out en masse lately...perhaps he just got caught up in the crossfire. He admitted his mistakes right away, however. We need good Democrats in office to counter the Republican menace.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

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xongsmith
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From: massachusetts US
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Message 122 of 212 (823878)
11-18-2017 12:37 PM


Well, we can forget about him running for POTUS in 2020. Kinda shot down any chance of that.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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Percy
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Posts: 16298
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 123 of 212 (823883)
11-18-2017 3:33 PM


Just now noticed this thread, haven't had a chance to read it yet, here's my quick take.

Franken was a comedian at the time, and he was helping put on a show to a young and bawdy audience. After such a show on the way back this photo probably seemed funny:

If he's not touching her, it's just a poor attempt at humor and he should keep his job. If he's touching her that's unforgivable molestation and he should resign.

But Franken admits thrusting his tongue into Tweeden's mouth during a rehearsed kiss. That's unforgivable and he should resign.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-19-2017 4:49 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
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Modulous
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Posts: 7537
From: Manchester, UK
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Message 124 of 212 (823895)
11-18-2017 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by xongsmith
11-18-2017 12:37 PM


Well, we can forget about him running for POTUS in 2020. Kinda shot down any chance of that.

There's always the option of running as a Republican....


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 Message 122 by xongsmith, posted 11-18-2017 12:37 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

    
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3580
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
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Message 125 of 212 (823907)
11-19-2017 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Percy
11-18-2017 3:33 PM


Real soon to be a candidate
Franken was a comedian at the time, and he was helping put on a show to a young and bawdy audience.

Alas, I saw somewhere that the incident(s) happened in Dec. 2006. He announced his Senate candidacy in Feb. 2007.

I don't know what psychosis Al was going through at the time. It really seems to be a case of loss of sanity.

We shall see what further information comes out. But I'm not ready to advocate "ex-Senator Franken" yet. Regardless of how distasteful the incident(s) were, it yet seems like a very brief anomaly in what seems to be an otherwise fine Senate career. I certainly hope there is nothing further bad to come out.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


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RAZD
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Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 126 of 212 (823921)
11-19-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Minnemooseus
11-19-2017 4:49 AM


Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
It appears that there is more to the story that what has been initially reported ...

quote:
New Information On Franken’s Accuser Proves MSM Is Botching This Story

Accusing someone of sexual assault is not an easy task, especially when the accused is in a major position of power. Ever since the #MeToo movement swept the nation, more and more woman are coming out and revealing their abusers. But here’s the thing: not everyone accused of sexual assault is always guilty. Moreover, it’s probably best to thoroughly report on a major sexual allegation.

Yesterday’s news of Senator Franken (D-MN) allegedly engaging in sexual misconduct during a USO trip caused a firestorm on Twitter. But Franken, being a gentleman and totally unlike creepo Roy Moore, immediately apologized to Leeann Tweeden, the woman pictured in the photo at the USO tour.

Perhaps in a rush to beat other networks to the punch in their shaming of Franken, the MSM has been completely reckless in covering this story. Firstly, they didn’t even bother to contact the photographer and get some context behind the photo that shows Franken apparently groping a sleeping Tweeden. Oddly enough, Tweeden was wearing a kevlar vest, military helmet, and sitting upright in a chair. The photographer has since spoken up.

But the bigger issue is how the MSM has completely failed to report on Tweeden’s fishy connections to right-wing media, which may or may not show Tweeden as trying to humiliate someone with whom she disagrees with politically.

Tweeden, for example, is no neutral party.

... Tweeden on Fox News’ Hannity calling Shirley Sherrod a racist Remember, Sherrod was attacked and set up by bogus journalism by Breitbart. To be clear, Tweeden was a participant in the right-wing echo chamber, amplifying and reinforcing the message of Breitbart.

Samantha Sanderson‏ @SamSanderson123
Replying to @danacbell @owillis

Al Franken isn't going to resign. He has two witnesses ... he had an escort/bodyguard who never left his side and says this didn't happen and the photographer saying she was in on the staging .. also @LeeannTweeden is on Hannity's show constantly ...

It was a comedy skit in poor taste and nobody is making apologies for Franken’s behavior. But that Tweeden is a Trump supporter with a history of appearing on decidedly right-wing news shows, makes this whole thing smell like a rotting corpse. Franken, of course, didn’t respond to her accusation by attacking her like Roy Moore did; he apologized and Tweeden accepted.


In contrast with Roy Scumbag Moore, Franken has requested an ethics inquiry ...

Enjoy


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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-19-2017 4:49 AM Minnemooseus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 10:53 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 133 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-21-2017 12:05 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 127 of 212 (823950)
11-20-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by RAZD
11-19-2017 9:59 AM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
More evidence that Tweeden's claim is politically motivated and misinformation:

quote:
Newly Released Photos And Videos Just Cast Doubt On The Claims Of Al Franken’s Accuser

In the tumultuous aftermath of Leeann Tweeden’s accusations against Al Franken during a 2006 USO trip to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan, new photos and videos have emerged that cast doubt on her account.

During the very same USO tour in question, Tweeden can be seen blatantly groping the backside of a male performer and kissing another.

While the details surrounding the rest of Tweeden’s interactions on this tour are still unclear, the images and videos of a woman who is not nearly as prim and puritanical as she has let on are striking, to say the least.

This USO tour is not the only time that Tweeden has put her sexually aggressive behavior on display. At one point, she even did so with the iconic, late Robin Williams.

It should also be noted that Tweeden just signed a book deal with Sinclair Broadcasting Group, which has also inked deals with prominent conservative voices, including Sebastian Gorka, Steve Bannon, and the Mercers.

As evidence has begun to spread that perhaps Tweeden had a political agenda behind her decision to name Franken, a growing movement of support has coalesced behind the Minnesota Senator.

If it is revealed that she perverted the important #MeToo campaign to launch a smear job on a Senator who has been a vital advocate for women, it would be a major blow to victims of sexual harassment and assault across the country.


So it looks like she owes Franken an apology, and also one to all the real victims of sexual assault as this ploy weakens the #metoo movement, and it gives perverts like Roy Moore a window to claim the women are just doing it for attention .. like Tweeden.

Curious that this claim of hers only came out now that Roy Moore is in trouble because of sexually assaulting girls.

Curious that it emanates from Faux Noise Nutwerk where she serves as part of the echo chamber.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by RAZD, posted 11-19-2017 9:59 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by NoNukes, posted 11-20-2017 1:50 PM RAZD has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16298
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 128 of 212 (823956)
11-20-2017 12:31 PM


Franken's Got to Go
Another woman comes forward. From CNN: Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010

Where there's fire there's inevitably many more little fires. This instance at the Minnesota State Fair must be just the tip of the iceberg. Franken has undoubtedly been pulling stunts like this for years. We know this, whether any more women decide to come forward or not.

And what do you know, more fires are emerging, just came across this: Leeann Tweeden was hardly Franken’s first groping victim. Apparently Franken and Davis used their comedy act to publicly take advantage of very young women. That's despicable.

About this:

The photographer is identified as "Photographer". Yeah, I'm convinced. Oh, look at this, it's already been revealed as bogus: Al Franken’s Photographer Saying Groping Image Of Leeann Tweeden Was Staged Is A Fake Quote

In case it hasn't been reported here yet, Tweeden started as a sports reporter, she worked on-air at Fox Sports News for a while, she once appeared on Sean Hannity's show, and she's appeared nude in Playboy. Nothing in that makes her fair game for molestation, and I'll use the word despicable again, this time to describe attacks on victims of molestation.

I like Al Franken. I liked him as a comedian and I like him as a politician. But we can't tolerate sexual predators, and especially not in positions of considerable responsibility. Franken's gotta go.

I liked this tweet found further down the page about the photographer quote being fake:: "The people defending Al Franken are as pathetic as you defending Roy Moore. You all make this country so much worse." We can't be the kind of people who say, "Sure he's a creep, but he's our creep." We're better than that.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 11-20-2017 12:40 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 129 of 212 (823960)
11-20-2017 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Percy
11-20-2017 12:31 PM


Re: Franken's Got to Go
Percy writes:

I like Al Franken. I liked him as a comedian and I like him as a politician. But we can't tolerate sexual predators, and especially not in positions of considerable responsibility. Franken's gotta go.

I liked this tweet found further down the page about the photographer quote being fake:: "The people defending Al Franken are as pathetic as you defending Roy Moore. You all make this country so much worse." We can't be the kind of people who say, "Sure he's a creep, but he's our creep." We're better than that.

Draining the swamp should begin with the public. If the stories can be validated, I agree that Franken should go, as should Roy Moore. Politics should have nothing to do with any of this, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with it.

And I won't take sides.

add by Edit: The whole issue of media being truthful and verifiable is the real issue in this whole affair, as well as with Roy Moore. Our culture is involved in a war of ideas, beliefs, ideologies, and politics. The question is how do we get to the truth amidst so much information, accusal, and counter defense?

Edited by Phat, : added thought


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Percy, posted 11-20-2017 12:31 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10116
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 130 of 212 (823971)
11-20-2017 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by RAZD
11-20-2017 10:53 AM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
So it looks like she owes Franken an apology, and also one to all the real victims of sexual assault as this ploy weakens the #metoo movement, and it gives perverts like Roy Moore a window to claim the women are just doing it for attention .. like Tweeden.

I am very saddened by the news regarding Al Franken, but I won't react by differently to what seem to be attempts at shaming the victim regardless whether it is Moore's supporters or Franken's supporters who are doing it. I am a long time fan of Franken's. and I have admired his work in the US Senate.

Tweeden was seen kissing another performer? That certainly doesn't discredit her in my eyes. Tweeden groped another performer? Did that turn out to be unwanted? I'd need to hear that before I'd even consider these kinds of stories in any way.

And this:

quote:
If it is revealed that she perverted the important #MeToo campaign to launch a smear job on a Senator

"If it is revealed"? Yeah, let me know when you've got something other than innuendo.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 10:53 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 5:56 PM NoNukes has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 131 of 212 (823986)
11-20-2017 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by NoNukes
11-20-2017 1:50 PM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
... Tweeden groped another performer? Did that turn out to be unwanted? ...

Is that the standard now? Gropers will applaud. She's done her job, and now they can vote for Roy Moore?

Tweeden was seen kissing another performer? ...

Remember her complaint is that Franken kissed her, a kiss was part of the act (there is footage), and there was no actual groping (just staged "bathroom humor" pretend to grope gag and she was in on it).

In other words, she was doing exactly what she complained Franken was doing ... do we have one standard for men and a different one for women? Not for me.

It was a USO show and some bawdiness was expected ... as is tradition (look at old Bob Hope footage ... or do we have to classify HIM as a groper now ...)

... but I won't react by differently to what seem to be attempts at shaming the victim ...

So question the source of the story (the Faux Noise echo chamber of which she is a active member), question the accuracy of the claim (does any of the footage support it), question the politics (she is an ardent Trump supporter), and question the timing of the claim (why now when Roy Moore is in the headlines) ... does the claim pass the smell test?

Personally I think it stinks.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by NoNukes, posted 11-20-2017 1:50 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by NoNukes, posted 11-20-2017 7:19 PM RAZD has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10116
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 132 of 212 (823988)
11-20-2017 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by RAZD
11-20-2017 5:56 PM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
Is that the standard now?

Yes. The standard for whether sexual contact between adults is even a problem is strictly based on consent. You are saying that she kissed somebody and that she grabbed somebody else's butt. Absent those folks having a problem with it, or those folks being intimidated by her, you haven't shown me a problem yet.

She's done her job, and now they can vote for Roy Moore?

Roy Moore is scum. That is completely independent of whether or not Al Franken groped anyone.

Remember her complaint is that Franken kissed her, a kiss was part of the act

I am addressing an attack on her that has a completely different basis. The attack I am rejecting seems to be based on either the accuser being a slut or having participated in sexual misconduct or her own.

o we have one standard for men and a different one for women? Not for me

No. If she did what she was accused of, that does not get Al Franken off, in my opinion.

I think I was pretty clear about my objection. I don't recognize any attempt to address what I actually said in my post here. If someone other than you had made this response, I probably would not give them the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 5:56 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2017 10:27 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3580
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 133 of 212 (823995)
11-21-2017 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by RAZD
11-19-2017 9:59 AM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
I had a longer message that got lost to a computer malfunction. The shorter version:

I think the photo clearly is staged, maybe or maybe not with Tweeden's awake participation. The photo documented a variety of "bad taste humor" but does not document a groping.

I find it implausible that Tweeden was sleeping in her full combat gear costume, but maybe she was.

Per her other accusations - I do think that her other journalism work with Fox News, indeed her mere association with Fox News, is a serious negative towards her credibility. Maybe she is telling the truth, but would one find the statement "Fox News corespondent lies to make liberal politician look bad" implausable?

Moose

Added by edit:

https://www.snopes.com/...pher-said-franken-image-was-staged

quote:
Did Franken Photog Say Groping Image Was Staged?
A fake quote ostensibly uttered by the photographer who took the infamous image of Senator Al Franken and Leeann Tweeden was circulated in November 2017.

quote:
CLAIM

The photographer of the infamous Al Franken image said that the moment was staged, that Leeann Tweeden "was playing dead," and that "she wanted him to ‘revive’ her."


quote:
RATING
FALSE

quote:
ORIGIN
How do you defend the indefensible? One way, apparently, is to make up a fake quote.

In an apparent effort to discredit Leaann Tweeden, the woman who accused Senator Al Franken of groping her during her 2006 USO tour, a quote ostensibly uttered by the photographer who snapped the infamous image was circulated on social media: ...


I think the quote source may indeed be false, but some variation of the "quote" content is still plausible.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added by edit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by RAZD, posted 11-19-2017 9:59 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2017 10:36 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 134 of 212 (824015)
11-21-2017 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by NoNukes
11-20-2017 7:19 PM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
... Tweeden groped another performer? Did that turn out to be unwanted? ...

Is that the standard now?

Is that the standard now?

Yes. The standard for whether sexual contact between adults is even a problem is strictly based on consent. You are saying that she kissed somebody and that she grabbed somebody else's butt. Absent those folks having a problem with it, or those folks being intimidated by her, you haven't shown me a problem yet.

The question was about post kiss "consent" not prior ... you seem to say it is okay if it is post kiss consented. I don't.

And context is important -- this occurred during the same show, it was part of the whole routine, and such routines are rehearsed, so the time to object is during the rehearsal. Additionally the Al Franken kiss is a prelude to her calling a soldier up to kiss. We can take this as the purpose of the skit: kiss a random serviceman as a proxy for all the soldiers. It's entertainment.

Personally I think you are reacting exactly the way this issue was raised to do: distract from Roy Moore and gaslight people into stepping down the 50 shades of grey between a stage kiss and a statutory rape. One is disappointing at worst while the other is absolutely deplorable and the perp should be in jail.

She's done her job, and now they can vote for Roy Moore?

Roy Moore is scum. That is completely independent of whether or not Al Franken groped anyone.

And yet you are talking about Franken and not Moore. Like I said, the publication of this issue at this time is for the purpose of distraction and gaslighting, and it looks like job done.

I am addressing an attack on her that has a completely different basis. The attack I am rejecting seems to be based on either the accuser being a slut or having participated in sexual misconduct or her own.

o we have one standard for men and a different one for women? Not for me

No. If she did what she was accused of, that does not get Al Franken off, in my opinion.

Except that it was staged, and both occurred on stage during the skit. Taking it as anything else is like quote-mining: taking it out of context to make it seem different than it was.

We also have the curious incident of the party celebrating Franken's election ... and she was there and all smiles and congratulations, etc ... the incident was not used then to discredit Franken before the election, which would have been a more appropriate timing than now, when Franken is not up for election and Roy Moore is.

Franken has asked for a senate ethics investigation, not a normal course from someone who is guilty.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by NoNukes, posted 11-20-2017 7:19 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 135 of 212 (824017)
11-21-2017 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Minnemooseus
11-21-2017 12:05 AM


50 shades of gaslighting
I think the photo clearly is staged, maybe or maybe not with Tweeden's awake participation. The photo documented a variety of "bad taste humor" but does not document a groping.

... Maybe she is telling the truth, but would one find the statement "Fox News corespondent lies to make liberal politician look bad" implausable?

Now consider that the purpose is not to make Franken look bad, but it is aired now to distract attention from Roy Moore sexual predator ... that the purpose is to create false equivalence between a stage kiss and statutory rape.

That goal seems to be accomplished.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 133 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-21-2017 12:05 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

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