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Author Topic:   The Clergy Project
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 76 of 151 (263726)
11-28-2005 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by DorfMan
11-28-2005 9:31 AM


Re: Definition of Christian
Isn't an American someone who retains American citizenship?
Isn't that the official, legal definition?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by DorfMan, posted 11-28-2005 9:31 AM DorfMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by iano, posted 11-28-2005 12:01 PM nator has not replied
 Message 88 by DorfMan, posted 11-28-2005 4:42 PM nator has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 77 of 151 (263753)
11-28-2005 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by jar
11-27-2005 5:12 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
Jar writes:
Instead, they love to just toss out any evidence that might threaten their beliefs. This is simply another acknolwedgement that their position is so weak, their faith and beliefs so weak, their religion so weak that it cannot withstand any challenge.
I'd almost ask what evidence/challenge you're talking about except that I'm afraid I only get the 'sheep and goats' story chucked onto the table again...yaaaawwwnnn.

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 Message 65 by jar, posted 11-27-2005 5:12 PM jar has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 78 of 151 (263756)
11-28-2005 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Omnivorous
11-27-2005 2:42 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
A Christian is born not bred
There is no absolute guarantee that they won't be hateful. If the above is correct then someone professing it may not be one at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Omnivorous, posted 11-27-2005 2:42 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 79 of 151 (263757)
11-28-2005 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by nator
11-28-2005 9:55 AM


Re: Definition of Christian
Schraf writes:
Isn't an American someone who retains American citizenship? Isn't that the official, legal definition?
Funny. The bible talks of believers as "citizens of heaven". Think you may have touched on the best definition of all Schraf. Someone is made a citizen. They may be black white good or bad - but it doesn't affect the legal position they hold.
In other words, all this professing and believing and denomination stuff is a side issue. A Christian (biblically) is one who has been made or declared so...by God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 9:55 AM nator has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 80 of 151 (263758)
11-28-2005 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by iano
11-28-2005 11:58 AM


Re: Definition of Christian
iano writes:
There is no absolute guarantee that they won't be hateful. If the above is correct then someone professing it may not be one at all.
I know, I know...they're slippery customers, those self-professed Christians!
I've decided to conclude that anyone who claims to be a Christian is a liar unless they gladly let me slap them around at least twice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by iano, posted 11-28-2005 11:58 AM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 11-28-2005 12:10 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 151 (263759)
11-28-2005 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Omnivorous
11-28-2005 12:04 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
I've decided to conclude that anyone who claims to be a Christian is a liar unless they gladly let me slap them around at least twice.
Perhaps you are confusing Christian and Christ-like. They are separate characterizations and it would be most unwise of you to assume that all Christians are Christ like.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:04 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:14 PM jar has not replied
 Message 83 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:16 PM jar has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 82 of 151 (263761)
11-28-2005 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
11-28-2005 12:10 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
I know, jar. My weariness with if-they-don't-agree-with-my-dogma, they-are-not-Christians makes me sometimes flippant, sometimes angry--in this instance, a bit of both.
I grew up with blue collar Christians. None of them were Christ-like; slapping any one of them would have been a hazard, and, imho, rightly so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 11-28-2005 12:10 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by bkelly, posted 11-28-2005 12:28 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 11-28-2005 5:55 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 83 of 151 (263762)
11-28-2005 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
11-28-2005 12:10 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
...and as I've remarked to iano before, my policy is to take people at their word about their religious beliefs/affiliation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 11-28-2005 12:10 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 8:03 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 151 (263763)
11-28-2005 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Lizard Breath
11-27-2005 7:02 PM


Re: Falling away
Lizard Breath writes:
I can't answer it any more clearly. If you accept evolution, then you are wasting your time persueing the God of the Bible. They cannot coexist.
That is not what the pope says. The pope is about as christian and one can get, and probably about as conservative as they come. Check the in the new thread I started about Vatican snubs ID.
(edited to fix a typo)
This message has been edited by bkelly, 11-28-2005 05:51 PM

This message is a reply to:
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bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 151 (263764)
11-28-2005 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Omnivorous
11-28-2005 12:14 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
Omnivorous writes:
I grew up with blue collar Christians. None of them were Christ-like; slapping any one of them would have been a hazard, and, imho, rightly so.
Debating how much they need the slapping around might not be productive, regardless of how accurate and fun that might be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:14 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:35 PM bkelly has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 86 of 151 (263766)
11-28-2005 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by bkelly
11-28-2005 12:28 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
True. Pardon my slippage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by bkelly, posted 11-28-2005 12:28 PM bkelly has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 87 of 151 (263802)
11-28-2005 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Lizard Breath
11-27-2005 5:15 PM


The all or nothing Bible
If you can attack the Bible at it's very core and prove or demonstrate that it is incorrect in it's assesment of how we got here, the entire credibility of the Bible is destroyed. Since according to the Bible, the first 5 days of creation were only witnessed by God, then if the account is wrong, then what else could you believe in the book.
etc.
The "if you can't believe all of it, then how can you believe any of it" attitude seems to be a common theme expressed by fundamentalist Christians. This is applied to the Bible in general, and to the creationism of Genesis in specific (and, as a side note, also to the theory of evolution, both biological and in the broader sense of the term).
I think the general content of your message is deserving of being it's own topic. Titled something along the lines of "Bible: Can you believe some of it, if you don't believe all of it". But that may be more characters that the title field will permit.
Cheers,
Moose (with Adminnemooseus looking over the shoulder)

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-27-2005 5:15 PM Lizard Breath has not replied

  
DorfMan
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 282
From: New York
Joined: 09-08-2005


Message 88 of 151 (263840)
11-28-2005 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by nator
11-28-2005 9:55 AM


Re: Definition of Christian
I would ask if citizenship is enough to make an American.
I would ask that you look at a fractured country, and I would ask that you look at fractured Christianity to deliberate either definition.
I believe you know that citizenship is NOT enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 9:55 AM nator has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 89 of 151 (263863)
11-28-2005 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Omnivorous
11-28-2005 12:14 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
I know, jar. My weariness with if-they-don't-agree-with-my-dogma, they-are-not-Christians makes me sometimes flippant, sometimes angry--in this instance, a bit of both.
But never humble, in order to consider that you might be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:14 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 8:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 90 of 151 (263920)
11-28-2005 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
11-28-2005 5:55 PM


Re: Definition of Christian
Faith writes:
But never humble, in order to consider that you might be wrong.
Mote and beam, Faith, mote and beam.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 11-28-2005 5:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
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